Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (783 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] Default desktop: the Belgian solution
  • From: Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 20:01:13 +0200
  • Message-id: <200908032001.13300.l.lunak@xxxxxxx>
On Monday 03 of August 2009, Jean Cayron wrote:
As some KDE users feel unhappy that the Gnome desktop appears first on
the list during the installation let me propose this:
- For 11.2 lets place KDE first
- For 11.3 lets place Gnome first
- For 12.0 lets place KDE first
and so on... And if another Desktop (Moblin, Xfce?) becomes
mainstream, let see later.
Of course, none of them should be preselected. My experience with
firends is that if they don't know, they click on the first one.

Hope that it can help positively to put an end to this never ending

I'm afraid it cannot. Assuming you are serious about this, then this does not
actually change almost anything. It mitigates a small part of the problem but
it creates new ones (would there be somebody who would not laugh at us for
this?) and it doesn't solve the primary problem.

It was a mistake to present the UI itself as a problem, as that is just a
demonstration of the underlying problem. Please see the "my KDE summary" mail
from me, 3rd paragraph especially. The problem is there is a perception that
openSUSE does not treat KDE even at least equally as GNOME, because GNOME is
artificially elevated to they-are-both-default status with KDE, even though
this is nowhere else done in openSUSE. The official message to KDE "you are
equally welcome in openSUSE" conflicts with openSUSE granting special rights
to KDE's competing project that are not granted to any other project included
in openSUSE. Trying to alter the UI that demonstrates the problem with this
UI non-solution may be instead interpreted as an attempt at ridiculing the
actual problem.

The actual problem might be probably also solved by openSUSE doing something
else in KDE's favour that would compensate the special treating GNOME has
(bad example:granting KDE more places in the openSUSE board than GNOME), but
that is very likely a bad path to choose. First of all it would be hard to
come up with a good compensation (that is why the example is bad) and second
it would be better to simplify things instead of complicating them. There is
of course also the option to remove the exception by requiring users to make
their choice also in other areas, in which case this one exception would
cease being an exception, but I don't think we would improve openSUSE by
dialogs suddenly losing the preselections.

Therefore it is better to remove the special priviledge "the most popular and
the second most popular desktops must be presented without a preselection
during install" and stick with the "most preferred choice is preselected"
rule that is applied everywhere else. That will very likely remove the
perception that openSUSE favours GNOME more (because it is no longer granted
any exceptions) and should confirm the official message that KDE is equally
welcome in openSUSE (because then KDE would be treated like all
most-preferred choices in openSUSE).

Of course, this is probably not what GNOME people would want, but at the same
time, this is not what some KDE people would want either. There are ones that
believe KDE's position in openSUSE entitles it for the right to be the
desktop focus of openSUSE and that openSUSE would benefit more from that than
from supporting two desktops equally. So what is written above is a
compromise (definitely at least for some). And I personally believe it is a
good solution for the current problem.

Lubos Lunak
KDE developer
SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: l.lunak@xxxxxxx , l.lunak@xxxxxxx
Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 972
190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951
Czech Republic
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