Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (783 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] openFATE feature 306967, KDE default
  • From: Lubos Lunak <l.lunak@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 19:51:24 +0200
  • Message-id: <200908021951.24717.l.lunak@xxxxxxx>
On Friday 31 of July 2009, Lubos Lunak wrote:
On Friday 31 of July 2009, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
To me a switch to KDE default looks like putting GNOME one row to the
back. Can we find a better solution than we currently have without giving
out this message? Or is this no great alternative?

There are really 2 ways to look at feature #306967:

1) Make KDE the default, and make it a political statement. That is what
the openFATE proposal looks like, that we should say "openSUSE is primarily
a KDE distribution".

2) Make KDE the default, and try to not make it look like a political
statement. This is what the proposal on this mailing list looks like, to
preselect the KDE radio button in the installation page, and that's it,
don't make a fuss of it.

Actually, I take this back, as I think I completely misinterpreted feature
#306967 here. After careful reading again and thinking about it, I see it now
like this:

- the only request there is "make KDE the default desktop". It is nowhere
asked that openSUSE focuses primarily on KDE or that GNOME is neglected. In
fact, it explicitly states that GNOME should remain supported as a choice.

- this can be achieved by preselecting the KDE radiobutton during installation
and nothing more

- everything else in the feature is a description of benefits of doing so (and
only doing so, without expressing any explicit focus on KDE or anything

This is actually not asking to make KDE special in any way or to grant KDE
any additional priviledge. It is the common practice in openSUSE to select
the technically best solution, and in case that is not feasible for whatever
reason, the most popular solution. Therefore GNOME has the special priviledge
of being presented completely equally (or actually with a slight advantage by
being first) with what in all other cases would be the presented default
selection in a choice or would be used without a choice at all. The feature
asks for applying the common practice to the desktop selection, in other
words, the feature actually asks for removal of the priviledge that GNOME
currently has. There is no further request related to KDE or GNOME other than

As for political messages, we currently do have a political message. The
current existing priviledge for GNOME, despite trying to look like treating
choices equal, actually makes GNOME special by what is described above, thus
not treating everything in openSUSE equally. This creates a message towards
other openSUSE communities, primarily the major KDE community, that they are
only 2nd class citizens in openSUSE and that the GNOME community is valued
more in openSUSE. Also, openSUSE got asked by the community using openFATE to
change this. Therefore even not doing anything is stressing the existing
political message. Since openSUSE positions now itself as an open community
distribution, this may be jeopardized by refusing what appears to be a
reasonable request from the majority of our community.

I also believe the pros/cons conclusions in the original mail of this thread
are somewhat wrong, mainly since they miss the analysis of what happens when
the current situation stays. For the case when the feature is refused, it is
sufficient to take all argument against it and look at them from the other
side. So far all reasons supporting keeping the GNOME exception, as presented
here, appear to make either equal or worse harm than when turned around and
viewed as reasons for making KDE the default desktop.

Finally, as a member of the KDE team I would like to say that I believe that
just doing the radiobutton change, without anything else, has the potentional
to achieve what the feature suggests. Compared to other potential users and
contributors it should be simpler to gain back portion of the ones that have
been driven away by the existing anti-KDE messaging from openSUSE but would
have otherwise stayed. If openSUSE stops suggesting that GNOME is more
important for openSUSE, and removal of the GNOME exception might be
sufficient for that, those might be willing to give openSUSE a try again. KDE
people also now do not have a major distribution they could consider a
distribution supporting KDE, since that was us and our current position
discourages KDE involvement in openSUSE. If the perception that openSUSE
favours GNOME was removed, again these potentional users and contributors
could be easier to convert from their distribution that sees KDE as something
minor to us, if they could be convinced that openSUSE would treat them at
least equally. That is not the case currently however, for reasons explained

Lubos Lunak
KDE developer
SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: l.lunak@xxxxxxx , l.lunak@xxxxxxx
Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 972
190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951
Czech Republic
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