Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (783 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] openFATE feature 306967, KDE default
  • From: alpha096@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 11:59:45 +1000
  • Message-id: <4A74F311.5000105@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sorry I stuffed up the thread...but will now correct my reply posting
This issue is highly politicised by many messages through this debate -
You yourself quoted a political statement
from a high thread. O.K lets call this a highly passionate issue for most.

The transparency issues with CD/DVD media I am taking about is having a
DVD media in the drive, opening Dolphin or any other
file manager and copy from HDD to DVD/CD media via a file manager.
'Select, copy, paste.' Its a simple issues that gnome actually handles
very well but KDE is light years away
from having such simplicity.

As far as usability goes, we sacrifice it time and time again with
technical perspectives. A simple example
is the Yast and the Cancel and Abort buttons. Once a user executes say a
network service, and for some reason it cannot complete the task,
the Cancel and Abort buttons have no effect - you may as well blank them
out after you execute a change to any service and it
either cannot or is taking forever to complete.

See
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=489077
where all parties were content to waste huge amounts of time in
argument. Why the Cancel or Abort buttons cannot be changed
to kill the PIN, in the same way ANY KDE4 Application can do, if you
close it from a right click on the Task Manager Tray.

I opened an Enhancement Bug in Gnome for a "Super User/Root" File
Manager on the menu system - It was sent back as Invalid.
I open an Enhancement request to permit a users right click on the
desktop to add either an application or object - It was sent back as
invalid.
Work that one out?

With the Introduction of 4.x KDE developers removed functionality from
the user. This is the hugest error in development that I
have ever seen. Its Computer Science Year 1 lesson 2. You don't remove
functional aspects of anything with there being
a significant technical reason to do so and then its a hard push!

These are all in Bugzilla...

Yast and Gnome development are closed shops, and it does not take rocket
science to see that with
a simple search for enhancement or bugs raised since 10.3

We also have a situation that most all developers at Suse.de, don't even
use the default KDE/Gnome desktops!!! and its very seldom
each person does an install on their own PC with new versions. Try to
get the developers to use the default desktop
AND remove the command prompt and see how they go. This is exactly what
the user experiences.
It took me 4 years to give up a line editor, and another 3 to give up a
non-GUI text Editor, another 6 years to convince
me to use a GUI File Manager, and all up 8 years to give up a Terminal
emulator in favour of a GUI fill-in the-box.

Generation Y will NOT use anything but a GUI Interface, and History is
punctuated with what the general user can cop with.
Do you recall when Windows 95 came out! M.S committed huge resources and
invested huge amounts
of money to provide only 2 very small but hugely significant issues the
world had.
It provided a GUI Interface that did not require a user to set-up and
edit 2 files on every PC.
They also bastardised the limitations of memory managers and committed
to use XMS memory
as the ONLY way to address RAM above 1024 - EMS LIM4 was tossed away for
eternity.

Do you re-call NetWare 3.x to NetWare 4.x - My God, we had to create a
GUI Interface just to Install the Server software
and Maintain its Management. Everything about the server interface had
to be object orientated
on a GUI AND demanded a mouse be present!

NetAdmins would never cope now, if we gave them NetWare 2.15 where we
had to generate
server.exe and disk drivers on the actual server, and if we game them
3.15 that made the quantum leap to an "Install" Module.

Microsoft's First use of NTFS Advanced Server that gave the Netadmin a
GUI to manage the Server had the world hooked
and when NetWare 4.x came out with objects and NetWare 5.n came with a
GUI/IP comms, it was far too late. The world was
already hooked on the GUI of NTFS Server and never looked back!

Personally, I would love to go back to command line entries in a
millisecond, but I can be a dinosaur in today's environment.
Within 3-5years Gen Y will soon be making decisions on software Industry
buys and if we are there with a complete alternate better or equal offer
- its bye bye birdy.

Generation Y will NOT use a NON-GUI anything, and unless they have a
mouse they cannot use the Interface.
- Its very very very simple. Technical excellence behind the GUI, as
long as it works, is completely wasted on a general
user.

Usability is King and Historically starkly evident. So we either rewrite
history to suit ourselves or disappear off the earth.


Carlos E. R. wrote:
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On Saturday, 2009-08-01 at 08:04 +0200, Will Stephenson wrote:

On Saturday 01 August 2009 02:02:56 Carlos E. R wrote:
My feeling is that KDE users and devs (@novell) want to push KDE as the
primary desktop, but that they will not stop there. Next they will want
resources dedicated to Gnome development and integration diminished,
till
finally Gnome is just a bare vestigial desktop, almost useless.

That is what to me means this political statement. :-/

Yes, I have read testimonies that show almost hatred of gnome and its
users... :-/

You're scaremongering and trying to polarize the debate. Stop it.
Nobody
involved in this discussion has made such claims.

I'm sorry, but that is the message I'm getting from you guys.

This is not the only place where opinions are getting printed, you know.


What other distro can boast of such good integration between different
desktops, as we have now in oS? Do you want to lose that?

Without meaning to do ourselves down, what integration are you
talking about?

Currently I use a gnome desktop with kde tools. I call that integration.

- -- Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
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