Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (207 mails)

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[opensuse-project] Re: Code names
  • From: Jim Henderson <hendersj@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 05:02:56 +0000 (UTC)
  • Message-id: <gtoha0$vi2$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Mon, 04 May 2009 19:19:39 -0500, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:

Il giorno lun, 04/05/2009 alle 22.54 +0000, Jim Henderson ha scritto:
invoking Godwin's law here), I think we could all agree that naming a
release "Hitler" would be just a bit of a problem for much the same

I don't think anybody disagrees on this. But I think the difference
between the names is very clear too.

It may be to you and me, but I'm not (and I assume you're not, but I
don't know) part of the group that was affected by the shared ideologies
of the two individuals in question.

mean that it's appropriate (in my view) to completely disregard
opinions and viewpoints that may be valid, either and just say "deal
with it."

Well, certain colours has or had a political meaning. Some has a ratial
connotation in a certain context. Just think to the very elementary
example of black and red. The fact that we feel them far from us doesn't
really mean someone could not be "offended".

Sure, but I think there's a world of difference between the name of a
colour and the proper name of someone who was any particular ideological

Opinions has to be heard, taken into account, but not necessarily

I don't disagree with that, in fact I wrote something to that effect in
an earlier reply. :-)

I hope that never happens - the day it does is the day the distro
ceases to be a community-driven distro.

No, that would be the day the distro will show a plan, in the common
interest, and not exposed to the opinions of a few (I'm not simply
referring to the codenames topic, which is irrelevant). The difference
sounds really evident.

Well, I've already stated my opinion. A plan is formed by the project
leaders and IMHO is accepted or not by the community. If the project
leaders want the project to grow, the perspectives of all members of the
community are considered and weighed. As you and I both said, opinions
have to be heard and taken into account. Then the views are incorporated
or not into the overall plan.

So I reiterate: the day the project stops listening to multiple points
of view from the community is the day the project stops being a community-
driven project.

But as I often point out to customers (and friends) at work, just
because a decision doesn't go your way doesn't mean it wasn't listened
to, either. Just because people express opinions doesn't mean giving
in to every little demand for a change, either. But it does mean
considering the point of view and making an informed decision - and
being willing to say "gee, we didn't consider that and it was a mistake
to move forward" when a mistake has been made.

Right. We are essentially saying the same thing. ;-)

I find I have this habit of being in violent agreement with others. ;-)

Not saying a mistake has been made, just providing an alternate point
of view.

Well, you are somewhat saying that. Maybe the 11.2 codename wasn't the
most pondered choice of this world, surely it's not the most important
choice people at openSUSE have to take for the distribution, but someone
on forums stretched it far too much, considering himself "offended" and
thinking the choice was done "on purpose". That's not expressing an

I saw that discussion on the forums, and I do agree that in all
likelihood it wasn't intended to offend anyone. But at the same time, as
a community we do deal with both geeks and non-geeks alike. I commented
in an earlier discussion (the one on the users list that resulted in the
bugbuster discussion) about the "tact filter" people use when
communicating, and when you start mixing people with their tact filter
set to inbound and people who have their tact filter set to outbound, you
end up with misunderstandings and the core message gets lost because the
messenger did a poor job of framing their complaint.

My guess is that the person who raised it on the forums was probably not
filtering outbound, but the initial response came from someone who
doesn't filter inbound. So while no offense was meant, the original
complaint was worded extremely strongly in order to get their point
across, and the point ended up getting lost in the hyperbole of the


Jim Henderson
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