Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (245 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] openSUSE Membership: a general comment
  • From: "Francis Giannaros" <francis@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 23:50:28 +0000
  • Message-id: <94dc34e40802081550s50ce639bwf192b6bcd280a424@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Feb 8, 2008 8:37 PM, Thomas Hertweck <Thomas.Hertweck@xxxxxx> wrote:
Hi there!

Pascal Bleser wrote:
[...] Granting is needed because not
everyone should have that "membership" (again, the word doesn't exactly
capture what it is, but it's the lesser bad one): it is supposed to be
for active contributors and makes them representative of the project
(which is what using the email for writing.. emails is all
about really, implicitly). If we gave it to everyone, it just wouldn't
make any sense.

I agree with Roger. I think the whole membership approach and what you
said in your email is a contradiction. One the one hand, you said that
membership should be exclusive to active contributors and only people
who represent the project should get a membership. This means, in
principle only maybe a dozen people should get such a membership (unless
you want to apply weak criteria, but then: where's the borderline?).
However, on the other hand, you said...

I find it a bit odd that people think it's a disclosing factor

...that such a membership approach isn't a disclosing factor. I think
that's a contradiction. Who decides about active contribution?

Did you check the wiki page? The board decides. The examples of the
contributions mentioned are all in general reasonably verifiable.
Someone installing openSUSE for other friends does not qualify in this
sense, at all. Furthermore, you do not need a 100% distinct and clear
outline in order to pose a criteria. As it starts, the board decides.

We have all said from the very beginning that we're open to changing
it if it doesn't scale well or isn't appropriate. However, that does
not seem to be the case so far.

somebody who helps his friends at home installing openSUSE on PCs and
laptops an active contributor? From my point of view, yes absolutely.

From our point-of-view, by the way we've defined and think of
contribution, no it's not. I had the word "verifiable" contribution in
the wiki before, but took it out because I thought some people were
being too put off by it. So far, 98% of the candidates we've had have
been perfectly appropriate.

By contribution we generally mean those exact points mentioned on the wiki page.

However, how do you want to "measure" his contribution? No board member
will probably know this guy, how do they want to approve his membership?

We won't?

And is somebody who develops some code for openSUSE but otherwise shows
rude behaviour worth becoming a member? From my point of view, no, not
at all. Such a person should never be allowed to represent openSUSE,
even if he develops a core part of the distribution.

This is an ongoing question. If their behaviour is really bad we
probably don't want them in the community at all anyway.

For me, it sounds like somebody wants to create an exclusive inner
openSUSE circle, people have to apply for membership, people have to
sign guiding principles, a board has to approve membership.

Let's be clear: there are no secret tea parties for members, no extra
events, no secret mailing list. If having an @o.o email address and an
IRC cloak is an "inner circle" then fine -- we're busted. When you use
"exclusive" in a loose sense like that it's not negative in any way.

The guiding principles are a set of principles that we want people in
the community to abide by. In general, they're pretty much common
sense. You shouldn't be surprised that a community will ask you to
abide by their rules if you want to be in it.

No, that's
from my point of view definitely the wrong approach. I will probably
never become a member of openSUSE as proposed in this thread, but
nevertheless I feel as a member of the openSUSE community and provide
help wherever possible. I don't need need a membership for that, and
I don't need to sign code of conducts and other documents.

Then, by all means, don't. No-one is forcing you into anything.

Things like
that just alienate (some) people.

Seems like an emotive piece of text with no real substantiation.
Giving upload rights to only a specific set of people is alienating
too, but it's pretty practical. So is membership.

Kind thoughts,
Francis Giannaros
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