Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-kde (310 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-kde] Missing package/update in KDF
Am Sonntag, 16. September 2012, 13:11:12 schrieb Sven Burmeister:
Am Samstag, 15. September 2012, 22:24:45 schrieb Will Stephenson:
In my humble opinion there is now a false dichotomy between 'community
maintained' and 'team maintained' - KR49 as community territory and KDF as
the homeland of the SUSE engineer. As there is effectively no dedicated
KDE (or GNOME if it makes you feel better) team inside SUSE for openSUSE
any more, KDF has to be community maintained. Whether that is Dirk doing
bits and pieces on his own time, my small parcels of work time, you,
Martin, Raymond, Alin, Todd or Nico, we are the openSUSE KDE team.

But we have different goals. Martin wants a rock stable release and warns of
regressions. And don't get me wrong, I do see his point even though I do
not want to use it. I just don't see the community to create and maintain
it or alternatively the commitment by openSUSE to do so.

I also want a rock stable release although I am using KDF all the time, but
e.g. my wife is using a plain installation without additional repos (except
packman of course). And I still would claim this is true for the majority of
users. So Martin is not alone with his goal.


openSUSE people are concerned with the openSUSE release as well albeit not
having time to contribute as much as they want to. They enforce the schedule
but lack time to contribute – a pretty "funny" situation. Some from the
employed "KDE team" seem to work more on other projects or are suddenly
away for "more important" work. Not blaming (maybe the management) but just
describing my impression. Raymond and Alin AFAIK do not use any stable KDE,
maybe not even a stable openSUSE version. I do not use STABLE either but
KRxy, i.e. follow upstream, Todd and Nico probably as well.

My conclusion is that very few use and contribute to what is stated as the
most important target, i.e. openSUSE release KDE version, aka KDF and
STABLE. Most follow upstream one way or another and their work just adds to
the openSUSE release KDE version as long and if it concurs with the
upstream releases.

The aim of KDE:Release:xy repos is to provide packages of the latest
upstream stable release, implemented as a snapshot of our development
towards the next openSUSE release. What you suggest is the converse of
that, but then we can't use KRxy for feature/packaging/new version
development without bombarding 'stable upstream release' users with
(broken?) updates.

Currently only important upstream patches are added to KRxy in-between
upstream releases and apps that are not part of KDE SC updated to stable
releases. That's how the official update channel should work as well,
updated pnm in order not to annoy upstream etc. Just that it does not
happen because backporting and all that double work is needed.

I claim you are wrong. I am quite sure nobody will reject a version update for
pnm and would want that you only have single backported patches, if you have a
good argument for the update.
This update simply did not happen because nobody submitted a fixed package.
(This of course may be related to your impression about the time of the
employed KDE team, which I share. But nothing has stopped you from submitting
a updated package on your own.)


"openSUSE stable" is nice in theory but lacks commitment by paid openSUSE
employees as you also stated. And IMHO the community contributing to the KDE
repos has a different schedule than openSUSE, i.e. upstream. Hence you
would force people to work on something they do not use and leave behind as
soon as the next upstream release is out.


I hope that you are wrong at this point, because if this is true for KDE this
is probably also true for many other parts of openSUSE and then the only
maintained versions would be Tumbleweed and Factory, which both I would not
call stable.

For 12.2 this would have meant to ship KDE SC 4.9.0 and have 4.9.1-.5 as
updates as soon as upstream releases them. All time spent on backporting and
messing with KDF could be spent on fixing potential regressions.

Now you have 4.8 in 12.2. Who of those contributing to the KDE repos uses
KR48 or STABLE and hence contributes to it?

I'd suggest making KR49 links to KDF as soon as possible, giving KR49
maintainers rights in KDF and working together there.

I would not want to work on KDF because of the openSUSE schedules.

I don't want to work on KRxy because I don't think it adds value for the
typical user.

In the end I think you are right with pointing out that within the openSUSE
KDE community people have different goals and we have to find a way to work
which is the most efficient to reach most of them.
I am not so active lately that I could tell what is the best approach for
this.

Christian

Ps: I actually did not want to start such a thread but simply point out some
oversights with regards to KDF.

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