Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-features (365 mails)

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[openFATE 305317] Default to hidden bootloader menu
  • From: fate_noreply@xxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2010 15:48:27 +0100 (CET)
  • Message-id: <feature-305317-30@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Feature changed by: Christoph Thiel (cthiel1)
Feature #305317, revision 30
Title: Default to hidden bootloader menu

openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Christoph Thiel (cthiel1)
reject date: 2009-08-05 12:17:52
reject reason: out of resources for 11.2.
Priority
Requester: Desirable
Projectmanager: Desirable

openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation
Priority
Requester: Desirable
+ Projectmanager: Important

Info Provider: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh)
Requested by: Jiri Srain (jsrain)

Description:
As long as there is no other operating system present (SUSE is the only
system), it makes sense to default to hidden bootloader menu (and
booting directly).

References:
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#Hidden-menu-interface
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=425717

Discussion:
#1: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2009-04-16 10:34:48)
I like that idea. I guess it's a tiny change for bootloader, but has
possibly some docu impact.

#2: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2009-05-28 16:45:13)
How should it behave with option to keep kernels from updates (libzypp
option)? What about failsafe?

#3: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2009-06-01 11:21:11)
From the GRUB documentation:
When your terminal is dumb or you request GRUB to hide the menu
interface explicitly with the command `hiddenmenu' (*note
hiddenmenu::), GRUB doesn't show the menu interface (*note Menu
interface::) and automatically boots the default entry, unless
interrupted by pressing ESC.
When you interrupt the timeout and your terminal is dumb, GRUB falls
back to the command-line interface (*note Command-line interface::).
This sounds to me like this GRUB feature is intended for different
purpose, and the use case described here does not make much sense
(unlike lowering the time-out to e.g. 1 second). Torsten, what is your
view?
According to the documentation, GRUB allows to display the boot menu
via pushing the Escape button.

#7: Christoph Thiel (cthiel1) (2009-07-16 11:27:26) (reply to #3)
Torsten, could you please provide your view on this?
Fedora and others seem to be doing this for years.

#4: T. J. Brumfield (enderandrew) (2009-06-13 03:31:06)
This option would only be utilized when no other OS is present, and you
can still get back to the menu with Esc. This isn't that much different
than needing F8 for the boot menu for Windows. It would speed up boot
times. How is that a bad thing?

#5: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-06-18 23:53:45)
Does not Fedora do something similar?

#6: Christoph Thiel (cthiel1) (2009-06-28 10:00:44) (reply to #5)
I haven't looked at how Fedora handles this. Jan, would you be able to
dig into what Fedora does technically? This would be very much
appreciated!

#9: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-08-09 14:38:47) (reply to #6)
(Well I had hoped you know ;-)
What Fedora does (or what it used to in the last years, or what other
distros did/do) is that the first GRUB screen does not show the menu
(it's "hidden"), but only shows it if you interrupt with a keypress:
http://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers/fedora-first-boot.jpg --1st
screen with "HIDDEN MENU"
http://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/d/d4/Tours_Fedora9_001_Install_Boot.png  --
2nd screen
And FWIW, I find that rather pointless, just show the menu, does not
hurt anybody to know a bit more about one's own system.

#8: Stefan Kunze (kunzes) (2009-07-28 16:03:50)
The only problem I see with this is when the installer does not pick up
another installed OS (happens to Windows once in a while) and defaults
to a hidden Bootloader?


#10: Robert Davies (robopensuse) (2009-12-10 17:53:20)
GRUB2 defaults to this method.
How does this speed boot time though?  If you wait for the user to give
them a chance to activate the Hidden menu, you actually slow things up,
as they are not encouraged to hit <enter>.  I think having option
hidden, makes it less obvious and increases documentation and support
workload, because greater need for user education.
Also the kernel does not give good user feedback early in boot process,
seeing menu flash up reassures end user that things are working as
expected.

#11: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-12-12 14:29:27) (reply to #10)
Indeed, the switch time from the hidden state to showing the menu
entries is considerable (and part of that is because it uses VESA).
GRUB's text mode hidden feature (for serial consoles) is faster ;)

#12: Vincent Untz (vuntz) (2010-02-10 19:12:15) (reply to #10)
Hidden makes sense if the timeout is reduced.
The main reason I see to do this change (from my perspective) is that
having the grub menu doesn't really look professional. Why should I
care about it if I only have openSUSE?

#13: Jakub Rusinek (liviopl) (2010-02-10 19:19:54)
My proposal is to have menu hidden when only openSUSE is installed and
a black screen with line saying "Press Esc to enter boot menu..." for a
few seconds.
Such a Windows-like behaviour, but with info, how to.



--
openSUSE Feature:
https://features.opensuse.org/305317

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