December 2007 - openSUSE Features - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[Fate 302957] Combined "where am I" page
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 22 Dec '07

22 Dec '07

Feature changed by: coolo Feature #302957, revision 20 Title: Combined "where am I" page openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important SLED-11: New Priority Requester: Mandatory SLES-11: New Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: coolo(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Our (openSUSE) statistics show that most of our users are not native english speakers. So I'm blindly assuming they do not have a english keyboard either and do not live in an english speaking timezone. So I want the first page to be not just the language in a blue box, but to have _one_ installation page with language, timezone and keyboard selection. These selections should depend on each other, so depending on where I click first the others change. To have a good looking addon, I picture the timezone selection as picture and not as fullscreen list boxes. Discussion: #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 11:48:30) An additional note, feature #302955 is related (split translations out of installation system). #2: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 13:27:05) Isn't it easier for users who do not speak English to have the first dialog really as simple as possible (since they cannot read it)? Having just one selection box leads them straight where they need to get; I guess that most of them use mouse for installation, so keyboard is not an issue either... Also, we already have a support in isolinux to select language; then the first dialog is skipped. #3: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 14:13:14) If isolinux provides a language, then the page is not worse than the timezone page is now. Just that it also allows to change the language after the fact. If users do not grasp english _at all_, they will have a hard time booting the installation off the CD. So I would blindly assume that users have no problem with selecting Deutsch, русский or čeština when presented with a list even if they do not understand the exact context. And when next to that list is even a graphical presentation of the world, most will be able to select the part of the world they live in. #4: evamaria.fuchs(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 16:00:35) I think for the secondary target market of opensuse (first time user, home user)an installer wizard that consists of a series of screens would be convenient. Basically it's preferable that language-, time-zone- and keyboard- selection depend on each other so that modifying one will effect the others. But - as I prefer a picture (e.g. a rotating globe) for time- zone selection - sticking them together in one screen would clutter the whole thing up. #5: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-15 13:01:50) after some discussions with Eva, I want to reexpress my request: I want the language selection to be on one page together with license and a welcome text and the timezone dialog to be graphical and a proposed keyboard layout associated to the language from the first page. The license text doesn't have to be visible in full beauty. I talked with the lawyer and what I got was: it's ok if the license can be read, it doesn't have to optimized for scrolling. I'll work on a mockup. The challenge is that we might need a slightly different work flow for ncurses, but I think popups are ok for it. So you can write UI code, that either fills a special widget or opens a popup. #6: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 13:53:57) (reply to #5) Danger Mouse! I'm very far from a capable mockup designer. But here is my show: http://ktown.kde.org/~coolo/Namenlos.png #7: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 13:54:45) (reply to #6) Ciaran, just to verify: is this way to present the license ok? #9: cfarrell(a)suse.de (2007-11-19 08:51:13) (reply to #7) Provided that we maintain the status quo with regard to not proceeding with the installation until the user actually accepts the license. #8: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 14:39:45) (reply to #6) mocking up the timezone page, I leave to the interested reader. For reference: this is how unbuntu's installer looks like: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GraphicalInstall?action=AttachFile&do=get… I would make the map a little smaller and do not show a region and not the name of the timezone again, but rather have the value of the combobox fill in what we have now as Europe/Berlin. Because I want a "Keyboard: English" with a little test field in there. But that is to be discussed. The main goal is to have a graphical selection instead of these fullscreen list boxes. #10: michl(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 13:28:22) Mockup looks good. And the whole thing should simplify and shorten the installation process. #11: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 16:57:23) The timezone dialog looks good to me, however, we should not present the other one in the current form. Even if we have a different dialog for NCurses, we still must take care of Qt with the resolution of 800x600. With the current font size, the text itself will not fit into the screen if it is 800x600. Also consider the license - if one wants to read it, he wants to read a reasonable part of the license without scrolling - and not to scroll every 3rd line. IMO this suggestion puts the usability a huge step back #12: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 18:23:04) (reply to #11) damn, fate crashed on my comment ;( Again: I'm not a good designer But as a matter of fact: we do not design the default screen estate for reading the license, but of course a better design can add a popup to read the full text in full screen. #14: locilka(a)novell.com (2007-11-29 13:10:32) Additional step to help user understand where he is and what he can do there is to remove a [Show Release Notes] button and place that button to a Welcome Dialog only. The button doesn't need to occupy installation wizard screen all the time, it often rather confuses users. Frankly, this wasn't my idea but I found it useful :) ;) #15: jsuchome(a)novell.com (2007-12-20 16:19:25) Proposal of timezone dialog with a map: http://w3.suse.de/~jsuchome/screenshots/yast2-timezone-wordmap-zoomed.png BTW, it may not have a sense to offer keyboard configuration together with timezone. Keyboard layout is currently decided according to selected language, so it may better fit together with language. But the language dialog could get eventually too crowded. + #16: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-12-22 14:05:24) + new screenshot for the first page (I tried ycp): + http://ktown.kde.org/~coolo/yast7.png + Some icons and some more text would help the design I'd think. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302957

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[Fate 302957] Combined "where am I" page
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 20 Dec '07

20 Dec '07

Feature changed by: jsuchome Feature #302957, revision 19 Title: Combined "where am I" page openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important SLED-11: New Priority Requester: Mandatory SLES-11: New Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: coolo(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Our (openSUSE) statistics show that most of our users are not native english speakers. So I'm blindly assuming they do not have a english keyboard either and do not live in an english speaking timezone. So I want the first page to be not just the language in a blue box, but to have _one_ installation page with language, timezone and keyboard selection. These selections should depend on each other, so depending on where I click first the others change. To have a good looking addon, I picture the timezone selection as picture and not as fullscreen list boxes. Discussion: #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 11:48:30) An additional note, feature #302955 is related (split translations out of installation system). #2: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 13:27:05) Isn't it easier for users who do not speak English to have the first dialog really as simple as possible (since they cannot read it)? Having just one selection box leads them straight where they need to get; I guess that most of them use mouse for installation, so keyboard is not an issue either... Also, we already have a support in isolinux to select language; then the first dialog is skipped. #3: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 14:13:14) If isolinux provides a language, then the page is not worse than the timezone page is now. Just that it also allows to change the language after the fact. If users do not grasp english _at all_, they will have a hard time booting the installation off the CD. So I would blindly assume that users have no problem with selecting Deutsch, русский or čeština when presented with a list even if they do not understand the exact context. And when next to that list is even a graphical presentation of the world, most will be able to select the part of the world they live in. #4: evamaria.fuchs(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 16:00:35) I think for the secondary target market of opensuse (first time user, home user)an installer wizard that consists of a series of screens would be convenient. Basically it's preferable that language-, time-zone- and keyboard- selection depend on each other so that modifying one will effect the others. But - as I prefer a picture (e.g. a rotating globe) for time- zone selection - sticking them together in one screen would clutter the whole thing up. #5: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-15 13:01:50) after some discussions with Eva, I want to reexpress my request: I want the language selection to be on one page together with license and a welcome text and the timezone dialog to be graphical and a proposed keyboard layout associated to the language from the first page. The license text doesn't have to be visible in full beauty. I talked with the lawyer and what I got was: it's ok if the license can be read, it doesn't have to optimized for scrolling. I'll work on a mockup. The challenge is that we might need a slightly different work flow for ncurses, but I think popups are ok for it. So you can write UI code, that either fills a special widget or opens a popup. #6: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 13:53:57) (reply to #5) Danger Mouse! I'm very far from a capable mockup designer. But here is my show: http://ktown.kde.org/~coolo/Namenlos.png #7: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 13:54:45) (reply to #6) Ciaran, just to verify: is this way to present the license ok? #9: cfarrell(a)suse.de (2007-11-19 08:51:13) (reply to #7) Provided that we maintain the status quo with regard to not proceeding with the installation until the user actually accepts the license. #8: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 14:39:45) (reply to #6) mocking up the timezone page, I leave to the interested reader. For reference: this is how unbuntu's installer looks like: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GraphicalInstall?action=AttachFile&do=get… I would make the map a little smaller and do not show a region and not the name of the timezone again, but rather have the value of the combobox fill in what we have now as Europe/Berlin. Because I want a "Keyboard: English" with a little test field in there. But that is to be discussed. The main goal is to have a graphical selection instead of these fullscreen list boxes. #10: michl(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 13:28:22) Mockup looks good. And the whole thing should simplify and shorten the installation process. #11: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 16:57:23) The timezone dialog looks good to me, however, we should not present the other one in the current form. Even if we have a different dialog for NCurses, we still must take care of Qt with the resolution of 800x600. With the current font size, the text itself will not fit into the screen if it is 800x600. Also consider the license - if one wants to read it, he wants to read a reasonable part of the license without scrolling - and not to scroll every 3rd line. IMO this suggestion puts the usability a huge step back #12: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 18:23:04) (reply to #11) damn, fate crashed on my comment ;( Again: I'm not a good designer But as a matter of fact: we do not design the default screen estate for reading the license, but of course a better design can add a popup to read the full text in full screen. #14: locilka(a)novell.com (2007-11-29 13:10:32) Additional step to help user understand where he is and what he can do there is to remove a [Show Release Notes] button and place that button to a Welcome Dialog only. The button doesn't need to occupy installation wizard screen all the time, it often rather confuses users. Frankly, this wasn't my idea but I found it useful :) ;) + #15: jsuchome(a)novell.com (2007-12-20 16:19:25) + Proposal of timezone dialog with a map: http://w3.suse.de/~jsuchome/screenshots/yast2-timezone-wordmap-zoomed.png + BTW, it may not have a sense to offer keyboard configuration together with + timezone. Keyboard layout is currently decided according to selected + language, so it may better fit together with language. But the language + dialog could get eventually too crowded. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302957

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[Fate 302924] use the raw meta-data cache to save downloads
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 14 Dec '07

14 Dec '07

Feature changed by: crrodriguez Feature #302924, revision 5 Title: use the raw meta-data cache to save downloads openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Mandatory SLED-11: New Priority Requester: Desirable SLES-11: New Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: jkupec(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: At least for http, zypp shouldn't download a file which already is (unchanged) in its meta-data cache again. This will most probably need to make the media back-end aware of the raw cache. Also, this feature can be implemented keeping the rpm file caching in mind (FATE #302159). References: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=307098 FATE #302159 Discussion: #1: visnov(a)novell.com (2007-11-06 10:02:49) Crucial functionality to further improve the stack. #2: dmacvicar(a)novell.com (2007-12-10 16:44:18) This can be fixed if we use Fetcher on commit and set the right cache paths. + #3: crrodriguez(a)novell.com (2007-12-14 12:52:15) + Critical enhacement, will make zypp lots of faster and more importantly + friendly with the mirror infraestructure. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302924

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[Fate 302924] use the raw meta-data cache to save downloads
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 10 Dec '07

10 Dec '07

Feature changed by: dmacvicar Feature #302924, revision 4 Title: use the raw meta-data cache to save downloads openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Mandatory SLED-11: New Priority Requester: Desirable SLES-11: New Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: jkupec(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: At least for http, zypp shouldn't download a file which already is (unchanged) in its meta-data cache again. This will most probably need to make the media back-end aware of the raw cache. Also, this feature can be implemented keeping the rpm file caching in mind (FATE #302159). References: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=307098 FATE #302159 Discussion: #1: visnov(a)novell.com (2007-11-06 10:02:49) Crucial functionality to further improve the stack. + #2: dmacvicar(a)novell.com (2007-12-10 16:44:18) + This can be fixed if we use Fetcher on commit and set the right cache + paths. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302924

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[Fate 302923] handle redirection to mirrors robustly
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 03 Dec '07

03 Dec '07

Feature changed by: freitag Feature #302923, revision 5 Title: handle redirection to mirrors robustly openSUSE-11.0: Rejected by visnov(a)novell.com reject date: 2007-11-28 15:42:20 reject reason: Out of scope for 11.0 Priority Requester: Neutral SLED-11: New Priority Requester: Neutral SLES-11: New Priority Requester: Neutral Requested by: jkupec(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: The proposal is to try other mirrors from a mirror list (from the redirector?) if an error occurs on some of the mirrors while providing a file from http/ftp repository. See the references for more details. References: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=337410 http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-buildservice/2007-10/msg00170.html Discussion: #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-20 11:15:49) I would be strictly against having an own mirror list. The decision was to go with the redirector (or NCC for SLE) and be done with mirrors. If that does not work, then we have to do this whole thing again, not adding untested work arounds to the product. #2: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-20 11:16:55) so I would reject this. But it's basically "Eval by Klaas" now + #3: freitag(a)novell.com (2007-12-03 09:49:44) + I agree with Coolos and Peters statements, I would also reject. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302923

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