November 2007 - openSUSE Features - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[Fate 302957] Combined "where am I" page
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 29 Nov '07

29 Nov '07

Feature changed by: locilka Feature #302957, revision 17 Title: Combined "where am I" page openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important SLED-11: New Priority Requester: Mandatory SLES-11: New Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: coolo(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Our (openSUSE) statistics show that most of our users are not native english speakers. So I'm blindly assuming they do not have a english keyboard either and do not live in an english speaking timezone. So I want the first page to be not just the language in a blue box, but to have _one_ installation page with language, timezone and keyboard selection. These selections should depend on each other, so depending on where I click first the others change. To have a good looking addon, I picture the timezone selection as picture and not as fullscreen list boxes. Discussion: #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 11:48:30) An additional note, feature #302955 is related (split translations out of installation system). #2: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 13:27:05) Isn't it easier for users who do not speak English to have the first dialog really as simple as possible (since they cannot read it)? Having just one selection box leads them straight where they need to get; I guess that most of them use mouse for installation, so keyboard is not an issue either... Also, we already have a support in isolinux to select language; then the first dialog is skipped. #3: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 14:13:14) If isolinux provides a language, then the page is not worse than the timezone page is now. Just that it also allows to change the language after the fact. If users do not grasp english _at all_, they will have a hard time booting the installation off the CD. So I would blindly assume that users have no problem with selecting Deutsch, русский or čeština when presented with a list even if they do not understand the exact context. And when next to that list is even a graphical presentation of the world, most will be able to select the part of the world they live in. #4: evamaria.fuchs(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 16:00:35) I think for the secondary target market of opensuse (first time user, home user)an installer wizard that consists of a series of screens would be convenient. Basically it's preferable that language-, time-zone- and keyboard- selection depend on each other so that modifying one will effect the others. But - as I prefer a picture (e.g. a rotating globe) for time- zone selection - sticking them together in one screen would clutter the whole thing up. #5: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-15 13:01:50) after some discussions with Eva, I want to reexpress my request: I want the language selection to be on one page together with license and a welcome text and the timezone dialog to be graphical and a proposed keyboard layout associated to the language from the first page. The license text doesn't have to be visible in full beauty. I talked with the lawyer and what I got was: it's ok if the license can be read, it doesn't have to optimized for scrolling. I'll work on a mockup. The challenge is that we might need a slightly different work flow for ncurses, but I think popups are ok for it. So you can write UI code, that either fills a special widget or opens a popup. #6: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 13:53:57) (reply to #5) Danger Mouse! I'm very far from a capable mockup designer. But here is my show: http://ktown.kde.org/~coolo/Namenlos.png #7: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 13:54:45) (reply to #6) Ciaran, just to verify: is this way to present the license ok? #9: cfarrell(a)suse.de (2007-11-19 08:51:13) (reply to #7) Provided that we maintain the status quo with regard to not proceeding with the installation until the user actually accepts the license. #8: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 14:39:45) (reply to #6) mocking up the timezone page, I leave to the interested reader. For reference: this is how unbuntu's installer looks like: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GraphicalInstall?action=AttachFile&do=get… I would make the map a little smaller and do not show a region and not the name of the timezone again, but rather have the value of the combobox fill in what we have now as Europe/Berlin. Because I want a "Keyboard: English" with a little test field in there. But that is to be discussed. The main goal is to have a graphical selection instead of these fullscreen list boxes. #10: michl(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 13:28:22) Mockup looks good. And the whole thing should simplify and shorten the installation process. #11: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 16:57:23) The timezone dialog looks good to me, however, we should not present the other one in the current form. Even if we have a different dialog for NCurses, we still must take care of Qt with the resolution of 800x600. With the current font size, the text itself will not fit into the screen if it is 800x600. Also consider the license - if one wants to read it, he wants to read a reasonable part of the license without scrolling - and not to scroll every 3rd line. IMO this suggestion puts the usability a huge step back #12: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 18:23:04) (reply to #11) damn, fate crashed on my comment ;( Again: I'm not a good designer But as a matter of fact: we do not design the default screen estate for reading the license, but of course a better design can add a popup to read the full text in full screen. + #14: locilka(a)novell.com (2007-11-29 13:10:32) + Additional step to help user understand where he is and what he can do + there is to remove a [Show Release Notes] button and place that button + to a Welcome Dialog only. The button doesn't need to occupy + installation wizard screen all the time, it often rather confuses + users. + Frankly, this wasn't my idea but I found it useful :) ;) -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302957

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[Fate 302955] Split translations out of installation system
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 29 Nov '07

29 Nov '07

Feature changed by: michl Feature #302955, revision 12 Title: Split translations out of installation system openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Mandatory Requested by: coolo(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: The translations of yast are the biggest part of the installation image. These should not be part of the image, but should be pulled in from the product media as the user selects them. Discussion: #1: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 13:18:17) Duncan, we will need a Linuxrc support for this. Can Steffen look into this feature? What comes to my mind is: Linuxrc needs to download and mount the language image for the language which user selected in bootloader menu (or English as fallback) Linuxrc needs to provide a support (eg. a script) which YaST can call when Language changes and downloads and "mounts" the new translation image It is questionable whether it should be YaST or Linuxrc who makes checks if the asked image is already downloaded, IMO it should be Linurc... #2: snwint(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 14:08:01) (reply to #1) I don't see linuxrc involved at all. YaST can just donwload he required files. Doesn't look that tricky to me. #3: jsuchome(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 14:29:36) (reply to #2) Maybe, but I do not know how. Lukas, don't we have some API in yast2- installation for that (copying target package from media to inst-sys, if I understand it correctly)? #4: snwint(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 14:32:40) (reply to #3) We've had exactly that discussion when we talked about loading the licenses. I think now is a good time to fix yast. I really don't see why other programs have to download various files for yast when yast could as well do it itself. And when this means doing the repo init earlier, then, well, do it earlier. #5: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 15:02:22) (reply to #4) YaST can only fetch data from instlalation sources. Inst-sys can come from completly different location than installation sources do. YaST has no information where to get these images from. YaST would have to reimplement getting data from all kind of locations on its own (it cannot use libzypp, since at the location, there needn't be any valid source. That's why I'd like to reuse functionality which Linuxrc already has. #7: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-16 11:42:17) (reply to #5) Duncan, is it feasible to make the download functionality of libzypp seperate from valid sources. E.g. RepoManager::download(theurl_I_got_from_linuxrc, "/suse/translations/de.tar"); #6: locilka(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 16:54:01) (reply to #3) As already written by snwint, there is no way how to download anything from sources before they are initialized. So: no, there is no Installation API for that. As there can be an installation-(zypp)-source and a different inst-sys, Installation could either initialize the source as soon as possible but it still wouldn't know where to download inst-sys extensions. On the other hand, Linuxrc doesn't know which translations will be needed. So maybe inst-sys could provide some functionality (API) for downloading these extensions and merging them (downloaddir + adddir), YaST could then use that API. Just an idea... + #8: michl(a)novell.com (2007-11-29 12:46:53) + We should come down to tier1 languages here. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302955

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[Fate 302923] handle redirection to mirrors robustly
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 28 Nov '07

28 Nov '07

Feature changed by: visnov Feature #302923, revision 4 Title: handle redirection to mirrors robustly - openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation + openSUSE-11.0: Rejected by visnov(a)novell.com + reject date: 2007-11-28 15:42:20 + reject reason: Out of scope for 11.0 Priority Requester: Neutral SLED-11: New Priority Requester: Neutral SLES-11: New Priority Requester: Neutral Requested by: jkupec(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: The proposal is to try other mirrors from a mirror list (from the redirector?) if an error occurs on some of the mirrors while providing a file from http/ftp repository. See the references for more details. References: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=337410 http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-buildservice/2007-10/msg00170.html Discussion: #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-20 11:15:49) I would be strictly against having an own mirror list. The decision was to go with the redirector (or NCC for SLE) and be done with mirrors. If that does not work, then we have to do this whole thing again, not adding untested work arounds to the product. #2: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-20 11:16:55) so I would reject this. But it's basically "Eval by Klaas" now -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302923

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[Fate 302988] Don't Zap by default
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 27 Nov '07

27 Nov '07

Feature changed by: michl Feature #302988, revision 5 Title: Don't Zap by default openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important Requested by: coolo(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: We have this long standing issue that ctrl-alt-backspace is exiting the desktop without much the user can do about it, while every **** web site asks you if you want to discard random information if you browse away. While the zap functionality is useful for some and essential for some situations, where your X server is broken _and_ the keyboard combination is not _that_ easy to trigger, shutting it off completely is not preferred. So we discussed and what seems reasonable is press once -> beep, press twice -> zap. Egbert and Luc say this can be implemented in the X server and then we can leave the option on by default. Discussion: #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-27 13:36:58) If this feature can't be implemented by let's say alpha 2 due to other constraints, I would like to change the default to not zapp for beta1. + #2: michl(a)novell.com (2007-11-27 14:41:40) + fully in agreement with coolo. Do it with few effort asap or leave it. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302988

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[Fate 302988] Don't Zap by default
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 27 Nov '07

27 Nov '07

Feature changed by: coolo Feature #302988, revision 4 Title: Don't Zap by default openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important Requested by: coolo(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: We have this long standing issue that ctrl-alt-backspace is exiting the desktop without much the user can do about it, while every **** web site asks you if you want to discard random information if you browse away. While the zap functionality is useful for some and essential for some situations, where your X server is broken _and_ the keyboard combination is not _that_ easy to trigger, shutting it off completely is not preferred. So we discussed and what seems reasonable is press once -> beep, press twice -> zap. Egbert and Luc say this can be implemented in the X server and then we can leave the option on by default. + Discussion: + #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-27 13:36:58) + If this feature can't be implemented by let's say alpha 2 due to other + constraints, I would like to change the default to not zapp for beta1. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302988

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[Fate 302957] Combined "where am I" page
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 26 Nov '07

26 Nov '07

Feature changed by: coolo Feature #302957, revision 16 Title: Combined "where am I" page openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory + Projectmanager: Important SLED-11: New Priority Requester: Mandatory SLES-11: New Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: coolo(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Our (openSUSE) statistics show that most of our users are not native english speakers. So I'm blindly assuming they do not have a english keyboard either and do not live in an english speaking timezone. So I want the first page to be not just the language in a blue box, but to have _one_ installation page with language, timezone and keyboard selection. These selections should depend on each other, so depending on where I click first the others change. To have a good looking addon, I picture the timezone selection as picture and not as fullscreen list boxes. Discussion: #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 11:48:30) An additional note, feature #302955 is related (split translations out of installation system). #2: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 13:27:05) Isn't it easier for users who do not speak English to have the first dialog really as simple as possible (since they cannot read it)? Having just one selection box leads them straight where they need to get; I guess that most of them use mouse for installation, so keyboard is not an issue either... Also, we already have a support in isolinux to select language; then the first dialog is skipped. #3: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 14:13:14) If isolinux provides a language, then the page is not worse than the timezone page is now. Just that it also allows to change the language after the fact. If users do not grasp english _at all_, they will have a hard time booting the installation off the CD. So I would blindly assume that users have no problem with selecting Deutsch, русский or čeština when presented with a list even if they do not understand the exact context. And when next to that list is even a graphical presentation of the world, most will be able to select the part of the world they live in. #4: evamaria.fuchs(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 16:00:35) I think for the secondary target market of opensuse (first time user, home user)an installer wizard that consists of a series of screens would be convenient. Basically it's preferable that language-, time-zone- and keyboard- selection depend on each other so that modifying one will effect the others. But - as I prefer a picture (e.g. a rotating globe) for time- zone selection - sticking them together in one screen would clutter the whole thing up. #5: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-15 13:01:50) after some discussions with Eva, I want to reexpress my request: I want the language selection to be on one page together with license and a welcome text and the timezone dialog to be graphical and a proposed keyboard layout associated to the language from the first page. The license text doesn't have to be visible in full beauty. I talked with the lawyer and what I got was: it's ok if the license can be read, it doesn't have to optimized for scrolling. I'll work on a mockup. The challenge is that we might need a slightly different work flow for ncurses, but I think popups are ok for it. So you can write UI code, that either fills a special widget or opens a popup. #6: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 13:53:57) (reply to #5) Danger Mouse! I'm very far from a capable mockup designer. But here is my show: http://ktown.kde.org/~coolo/Namenlos.png #7: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 13:54:45) (reply to #6) Ciaran, just to verify: is this way to present the license ok? #9: cfarrell(a)suse.de (2007-11-19 08:51:13) (reply to #7) Provided that we maintain the status quo with regard to not proceeding with the installation until the user actually accepts the license. #8: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 14:39:45) (reply to #6) mocking up the timezone page, I leave to the interested reader. For reference: this is how unbuntu's installer looks like: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GraphicalInstall?action=AttachFile&do=get… I would make the map a little smaller and do not show a region and not the name of the timezone again, but rather have the value of the combobox fill in what we have now as Europe/Berlin. Because I want a "Keyboard: English" with a little test field in there. But that is to be discussed. The main goal is to have a graphical selection instead of these fullscreen list boxes. #10: michl(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 13:28:22) Mockup looks good. And the whole thing should simplify and shorten the installation process. #11: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 16:57:23) The timezone dialog looks good to me, however, we should not present the other one in the current form. Even if we have a different dialog for NCurses, we still must take care of Qt with the resolution of 800x600. With the current font size, the text itself will not fit into the screen if it is 800x600. Also consider the license - if one wants to read it, he wants to read a reasonable part of the license without scrolling - and not to scroll every 3rd line. IMO this suggestion puts the usability a huge step back #12: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 18:23:04) (reply to #11) damn, fate crashed on my comment ;( Again: I'm not a good designer But as a matter of fact: we do not design the default screen estate for reading the license, but of course a better design can add a popup to read the full text in full screen. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302957

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[Fate 302047] Integrated package searching for YaST and build service
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 22 Nov '07

22 Nov '07

Feature changed by: michl Feature #302047, revision 19 Title: Integrated package searching for YaST and build service openSUSE-10.3: Rejected by aj(a)novell.com reject date: 2007-10-05 14:30:28 reject reason: still open partly - postpone the rest. Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important - openSUSE-11.0: New + openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important + Projectmanager: Important Requested by: dmacvicar(a)novell.com - Partner organization: Novell + Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: You perhaps remember the hacks Benjamin did to support Â "click and install" packages (similar to Click'n run) [1] Benjamin has another article in his blog that is worth to read. He has been providing a wepage to search packages from repositories like packman and build service. Now he presents an architecture to desentralize the system, using web services an indexers, and he shows working prototypes of YaST modules for searching, and others like web and irc-bot clients http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/bweber/entry/package_search_developments/ I hope we can provide a strategy and roadmap to integrate these cool ideas and _code_. Â [1]: http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/bweber/entry/next_generation_package/ Discussion: #1: jw(a)suse.de (2007-05-03 15:29:13) see also 300898 For 10.3 the installer should be able to make use of an external list of repositories. I suggest to host such a list at http://packages.opensuse-community.org/ together with the search engine, which is already there. #3: freitag(a)novell.com (2007-07-12 10:46:54) Implementation on openSUSE BS already started, Adrian knows the details. #4: adrian(a)novell.com (2007-07-12 11:30:04) We work on two approaches atm: * YaST will support (thanks to mvidner) additional repository offers during installation. The list gets hosted on our servers, the open question is how to maintain this list. * The build service End-User interface will offer .ymp files based on pattern submissions for easy installation. #5: visnov(a)novell.com (2007-07-30 20:13:09) (reply to #4) Adrian, please, drive this. The feature for YaST should be done now (let me know if anything is missing). + #6: michl(a)novell.com (2007-11-22 11:26:30) + This sounds like very useful. And it might be possible the community + (in this case Benji) helps implementing this. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302047

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[Fate 302923] handle redirection to mirrors robustly
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 20 Nov '07

20 Nov '07

Feature changed by: coolo Feature #302923, revision 3 Title: handle redirection to mirrors robustly openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation Priority Requester: Neutral SLED-11: New Priority Requester: Neutral SLES-11: New Priority Requester: Neutral Requested by: jkupec(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: The proposal is to try other mirrors from a mirror list (from the redirector?) if an error occurs on some of the mirrors while providing a file from http/ftp repository. See the references for more details. References: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=337410 http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-buildservice/2007-10/msg00170.html + Discussion: + #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-20 11:15:49) + I would be strictly against having an own mirror list. The decision was + to go with the redirector (or NCC for SLE) and be done with mirrors. If + that does not work, then we have to do this whole thing again, not + adding untested work arounds to the product. + #2: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-20 11:16:55) + so I would reject this. But it's basically "Eval by Klaas" now -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302923

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[Fate 302957] Combined "where am I" page
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 19 Nov '07

19 Nov '07

Feature changed by: coolo Feature #302957, revision 13 Title: Combined "where am I" page openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory SLED-11: New Priority Requester: Mandatory SLES-11: New Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: coolo(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Our (openSUSE) statistics show that most of our users are not native english speakers. So I'm blindly assuming they do not have a english keyboard either and do not live in an english speaking timezone. So I want the first page to be not just the language in a blue box, but to have _one_ installation page with language, timezone and keyboard selection. These selections should depend on each other, so depending on where I click first the others change. To have a good looking addon, I picture the timezone selection as picture and not as fullscreen list boxes. Discussion: #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 11:48:30) An additional note, feature #302955 is related (split translations out of installation system). #2: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 13:27:05) Isn't it easier for users who do not speak English to have the first dialog really as simple as possible (since they cannot read it)? Having just one selection box leads them straight where they need to get; I guess that most of them use mouse for installation, so keyboard is not an issue either... Also, we already have a support in isolinux to select language; then the first dialog is skipped. #3: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 14:13:14) If isolinux provides a language, then the page is not worse than the timezone page is now. Just that it also allows to change the language after the fact. If users do not grasp english _at all_, they will have a hard time booting the installation off the CD. So I would blindly assume that users have no problem with selecting Deutsch, русский or čeština when presented with a list even if they do not understand the exact context. And when next to that list is even a graphical presentation of the world, most will be able to select the part of the world they live in. #4: evamaria.fuchs(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 16:00:35) I think for the secondary target market of opensuse (first time user, home user)an installer wizard that consists of a series of screens would be convenient. Basically it's preferable that language-, time-zone- and keyboard- selection depend on each other so that modifying one will effect the others. But - as I prefer a picture (e.g. a rotating globe) for time- zone selection - sticking them together in one screen would clutter the whole thing up. #5: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-15 13:01:50) after some discussions with Eva, I want to reexpress my request: I want the language selection to be on one page together with license and a welcome text and the timezone dialog to be graphical and a proposed keyboard layout associated to the language from the first page. The license text doesn't have to be visible in full beauty. I talked with the lawyer and what I got was: it's ok if the license can be read, it doesn't have to optimized for scrolling. I'll work on a mockup. The challenge is that we might need a slightly different work flow for ncurses, but I think popups are ok for it. So you can write UI code, that either fills a special widget or opens a popup. #6: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 13:53:57) (reply to #5) Danger Mouse! I'm very far from a capable mockup designer. But here is my show: http://ktown.kde.org/~coolo/Namenlos.png #7: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 13:54:45) (reply to #6) Ciaran, just to verify: is this way to present the license ok? #9: cfarrell(a)suse.de (2007-11-19 08:51:13) (reply to #7) Provided that we maintain the status quo with regard to not proceeding with the installation until the user actually accepts the license. #8: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 14:39:45) (reply to #6) mocking up the timezone page, I leave to the interested reader. For reference: this is how unbuntu's installer looks like: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GraphicalInstall?action=AttachFile&do=get… I would make the map a little smaller and do not show a region and not the name of the timezone again, but rather have the value of the combobox fill in what we have now as Europe/Berlin. Because I want a "Keyboard: English" with a little test field in there. But that is to be discussed. The main goal is to have a graphical selection instead of these fullscreen list boxes. #10: michl(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 13:28:22) Mockup looks good. And the whole thing should simplify and shorten the installation process. #11: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 16:57:23) The timezone dialog looks good to me, however, we should not present the other one in the current form. Even if we have a different dialog for NCurses, we still must take care of Qt with the resolution of 800x600. With the current font size, the text itself will not fit into the screen if it is 800x600. Also consider the license - if one wants to read it, he wants to read a reasonable part of the license without scrolling - and not to scroll every 3rd line. IMO this suggestion puts the usability a huge step back + #12: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 18:23:04) (reply to #11) + damn, fate crashed on my comment ;( + Again: I'm not a good designer + But as a matter of fact: we do not design the default screen estate for + reading the license, but of course a better design can add a popup to + read the full text in full screen. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302957

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[Fate 302957] Combined "where am I" page
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 19 Nov '07

19 Nov '07

Feature changed by: jsrain Feature #302957, revision 12 Title: Combined "where am I" page openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory SLED-11: New Priority Requester: Mandatory SLES-11: New Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: coolo(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Our (openSUSE) statistics show that most of our users are not native english speakers. So I'm blindly assuming they do not have a english keyboard either and do not live in an english speaking timezone. So I want the first page to be not just the language in a blue box, but to have _one_ installation page with language, timezone and keyboard selection. These selections should depend on each other, so depending on where I click first the others change. To have a good looking addon, I picture the timezone selection as picture and not as fullscreen list boxes. Discussion: #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 11:48:30) An additional note, feature #302955 is related (split translations out of installation system). #2: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 13:27:05) Isn't it easier for users who do not speak English to have the first dialog really as simple as possible (since they cannot read it)? Having just one selection box leads them straight where they need to get; I guess that most of them use mouse for installation, so keyboard is not an issue either... Also, we already have a support in isolinux to select language; then the first dialog is skipped. #3: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 14:13:14) If isolinux provides a language, then the page is not worse than the timezone page is now. Just that it also allows to change the language after the fact. If users do not grasp english _at all_, they will have a hard time booting the installation off the CD. So I would blindly assume that users have no problem with selecting Deutsch, русский or čeština when presented with a list even if they do not understand the exact context. And when next to that list is even a graphical presentation of the world, most will be able to select the part of the world they live in. #4: evamaria.fuchs(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 16:00:35) I think for the secondary target market of opensuse (first time user, home user)an installer wizard that consists of a series of screens would be convenient. Basically it's preferable that language-, time-zone- and keyboard- selection depend on each other so that modifying one will effect the others. But - as I prefer a picture (e.g. a rotating globe) for time- zone selection - sticking them together in one screen would clutter the whole thing up. #5: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-15 13:01:50) after some discussions with Eva, I want to reexpress my request: I want the language selection to be on one page together with license and a welcome text and the timezone dialog to be graphical and a proposed keyboard layout associated to the language from the first page. The license text doesn't have to be visible in full beauty. I talked with the lawyer and what I got was: it's ok if the license can be read, it doesn't have to optimized for scrolling. I'll work on a mockup. The challenge is that we might need a slightly different work flow for ncurses, but I think popups are ok for it. So you can write UI code, that either fills a special widget or opens a popup. #6: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 13:53:57) (reply to #5) Danger Mouse! I'm very far from a capable mockup designer. But here is my show: http://ktown.kde.org/~coolo/Namenlos.png #7: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 13:54:45) (reply to #6) Ciaran, just to verify: is this way to present the license ok? #9: cfarrell(a)suse.de (2007-11-19 08:51:13) (reply to #7) Provided that we maintain the status quo with regard to not proceeding with the installation until the user actually accepts the license. #8: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 14:39:45) (reply to #6) mocking up the timezone page, I leave to the interested reader. For reference: this is how unbuntu's installer looks like: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GraphicalInstall?action=AttachFile&do=get… I would make the map a little smaller and do not show a region and not the name of the timezone again, but rather have the value of the combobox fill in what we have now as Europe/Berlin. Because I want a "Keyboard: English" with a little test field in there. But that is to be discussed. The main goal is to have a graphical selection instead of these fullscreen list boxes. #10: michl(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 13:28:22) Mockup looks good. And the whole thing should simplify and shorten the installation process. + #11: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 16:57:23) + The timezone dialog looks good to me, however, we should not present + the other one in the current form. Even if we have a different dialog + for NCurses, we still must take care of Qt with the resolution of + 800x600. + With the current font size, the text itself will not fit into the + screen if it is 800x600. Also consider the license - if one wants to + read it, he wants to read a reasonable part of the license without + scrolling - and not to scroll every 3rd line. + IMO this suggestion puts the usability a huge step back -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302957

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