Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (439 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Friendly warning: Python 2 is going to be removed from Factory on 2020-01-02
On 4/15/19 9:28 AM, Richard Brown wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2019 at 15:20, Robert Schweikert <rjschwei@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
No, we always clearly stated, that this will not be the case.

Well SLE15 is not the only game in town, we should not forget that.
SLE12 has Python 2.7 and has a lifecycle until Oct 31st 2027, add 3
years of LTSS and Python 2.7 will exist in SLE 12 10 years past the
upstream EOL.

Unless of course SLE decides to break pretty much every rule we have and
ditch Python 2.7.

Not that I am advocating to keep Python 2.7 in Factory until EOL of SLE
12. However the argument about "it goes away upstream" is not very
strong IMHO.

But considering that, unlike SLE 15, SLE 12 and Tumbleweed have had no
practical, theoretical, or even tangential codebase relationship for
years now, and Leap's last SLE 12-based release reaches end of life in
June this year, I don't see how your point really bring anything to
the table.

Well you stated that:

"Users want supported, secure, maintained software"

In a context where Michael offered to do the necessary maintenance work
for Python 2. Maybe you are implying that Michael is not capable of
delivering according to your definition?

Further, based on your statement one could easily draw the conclusion
that you are either deliberately, inadvertently, or uncaringly implying
that SLE will be shipping unsupported insecure software.

This ML does not exist in a vacuum and everyone is well aware of the
relationship between openSUSE and SLE. Therefore, IMHO, such statements
probably have funny and strange ways of making people think things that
may or may not have been intended.

To this you will of course state that this is an openSUSE mailing list
and what SLE does has no bearing to the discussion.

I will then reply that SLE simply becomes the new upstream of Python 2.7
and that yes, what SLE does has bearing on openSUSE; and round and round
we go.

So lets be clear, SLE 12 will have a supported Python 2.7 version until
2030, at least as long as current guidelines and policies apply. This
also implies that there will be fixes to Python 2.7 in case there are
security issues. Given that we have someone volunteering to take such
fixes and put them back into factory I fail to see why the institution
of a grace period would be such a horrible thing as it appears it is
made out to be.

The next logical argument from those that can't wait will be that there
has been a 10 year or so grace period already and that waiting any
longer will not make a difference. Certainly that is a fair argument and
one that I have made as well on occasion. For better or worse people
have a funny way of deciding for themselves when the time is right, may
it be finishing the osc port or the Firefox build system or
"my_favorite_application". And yes it is a matter of tradeoffs, are we
more interested in having only Python 3 or are we interested in having
Firefox?

Or maybe someone here will step up and fix up the Firefox build system,
I don't know. But the primary Firefox maintainer already stated that it
appears at this point unlikely that Firefox will be ready for days where
Python 2.7 does not exist.

Anyway the post that started all of this did not appear to consider such
tradeoffs, and maybe that was done in previous posts, I do not know. The
point is, collectively we find better solutions. The process to get
there is made more difficult when lines are drawn in the sand.


I do not think anyone is suggesting that SUSE 'forward-port' to
openSUSE any of their maintenance & fixes they will be conducting on
their old SLE codebase.

Meanwhile, the developers of openSUSE need to assess what they are
able and willing to maintain themselves.

So are you saying that Michael Stroeder is not considered part of this
"developers of openSUSE" group? His comments were simply dismissed out
of hand, that does not appear to be an assessment to me.


That determination appears to have been made, the reasoning is sound,
the intent has been made public.
I think energies are best spent figuring out mitigation strategies for
any disruption this may cause, but at it's heart, any suggestion that
Python2 has any life left in it appears to be a lost cause to me.


Well it has life left as long as it is needed by
"my_favorite_application" and if Firefox no longer builds after
2020-01-02 then I guess for all those that consider Firefox as
"my_favorite_application" it's lights out. That is certainly a path that
can be chosen. Whether that is a good decision or not is up to others to
decide.

Later,
Robert



--
Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU
Distinguished Architect LINUX
Technical Team Lead Public Cloud
rjschwei@xxxxxxxx
IRC: robjo

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