Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (401 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Can we assume that /bin/sh is bash?


On 13/03/2019 08:33, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:
Op dinsdag 12 maart 2019 22:58:07 CET schreef Simon Lees:
On 13/03/2019 07:28, Martin Wilck wrote:
On Tue, 2019-03-12 at 15:51 +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:
On 3/12/19 3:41 PM, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
The longer this thread evolves, the more I wonder how a decision
could
be reached. But I do think we need one. Otherwise we'll waste
energy in
pointless races where some people remove bashisms and others
introduce
new ones. We all have better things to do.

I can't see a consensus reached in this discussion. Yet, a request
to
put /bin/sh under control of update-alternatives is on the way to
Factory. So just creating facts.

Which is perfect!
https://media.ccc.de/v/1912-opensuse-is-what-you-make-it

No it is not. A public discussion which was by no means settled is
being ended the hard way, "creating facts". I can't imagine that that's
what Richard meant. This "solution" is thoroughly lacking the "human
touch" that Richard mentioned in his talk. It's also highly doubtful
whether everyone involved in the discussion "feels they were heard".
I, personally, do not. My key point in the discussion was that we need
to settle on a unique, well-defined, existing shell with which scripts
can be tested for compliance. After this change, we have the opposite.
/bin/sh is now a black box that behaves "posix compliant"
in some weakly defined way. Scripts may work, or they may not - no
reliable way to find out.

What I least understand is that this massive change is being rushed to
factory in less than 2 weeks, while other things keep lurking in home
projects or devel projects for ages. For example, in the course of
this discussion, I'd been trying to help XRevan86 to get a working
version of "checkbashisms" into factory, but so far it hasn't even
received a devel project review (
https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/662123).

That was my approach to the subject, take some small steps, evaluate
benefits, risks, and challenges, and then flip the switch (or not). But
the big axe seems to be preferred. Well then. I've learned a not-so-
nice lesson about openSUSE today.

I probably sound like a sore looser. Perhaps I am, although I'm not
strongly on one side of the "pro-and-contra bash" discussion. I
understand the "openSUSE is what you make it" mantra. But I dislike the
way it's bluntly being applied here.

I tend to agree, with Martin here, I don't think such a change should be
made until we can guarantee things wont break, and we can't do that
until there is a way for packagers like me who have never cared what is
/ isn't a bashism to know they are breaking something as part of the
buildsystem.

I would request that those who are making such SR's stop until there is
checks for bashism's as part of the buildsystem, otherwise i'll raise it
to the board, as quite clearly at the moment the objections / concerns
raised in the discussions on this list are not being taken into account
in the current submissions.

While I am generally ok with people making this change if they would
like to I think it needs to be done right, and the current submission is
not doing it right.
Though not affected myself, I tend to agree with Martin as well. What about an
option in the installer "Preferred shell" ? Make bash default, but offer ( and
install, when changed ) other shells?

My current main problem with the proposal is that it expects all contributors / members of the review team to go and learn something new (bashism vs normal shell) in order to not break things. Personally I think asking other people to learn new skills to care about things for you is not the best approach and doesn't fit with the openSUSE "Those who do decide" as lots of maintainers can decide not to learn and then we end up with something that is broken, whereas if a bot tells me i've screwed up in the same way a compiler does then its minimal effort for me to go and fix it.

Cheers

--

Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net

Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek
SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30
GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
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