Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (602 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: [PLEASE SPEAK UP] Disabling legacy file systems by default?
  • From: Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2019 22:49:05 +0100
  • Message-id: <>
On 12/02/2019, Michal Kubecek <mkubecek@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Greater point missed: do you seriously think that the huge team of
skilled engineers at the biggest computer company in history missed
these points when they implemented this idea? Do you think you're
smarter than everyone at Apple?

Honestly, this is a new low from you. Are you seriously trying the
"proof by authority" trick? Well, I'm pretty sure many, perhaps even
most developers at both Apple and Canonical realize how stupid the idea
is but that doesn't stop their marketing from selling it as a great
invention (compare with SLE 12->15 jump or even openSUSE 13->42->15
detour). What I find more disturbing is that you apparently buy it.

Hey now, as someone who was partially responsible for one of those
examples I object to your suggestion it was sold “by marketing” as a
great invention.

It was sold by developers like me too; the ability to make mistakes
knows no bounds - as the mail you were replying to proves; We are in
agreement on your general points ;)

Or did you forget that this was not an Ubuntu innovation, it was an
Apple one, which Ubuntu copied? Perhaps you were distracted by the
chance to take some cheap shots at a rival distro. Suggestion: don't do

I don't care if it's Apple, Canonical or whoever. That idea being stupid
has nothing to do with who came with it. If SUSE came with it, it would
be just as stupid. You might have missed that I never held back from
calling stupid ideas stupid when openSUSE came with them, both before
I became an employee and after. In fact, I'm usually more likely to
fight against stupid ideas in openSUSE as those do affect me directly.

Indeed, and while we often disagree on these lists you make a key
point - I think every topic we’ve ever disagreed on has been a debate
on two differing views on what is best for openSUSE, driven by our
shared desire to do what’s best for openSUSE.

I find the comparisons in this thread to other Projects and Operating
Systems to be at best chasing the “grass is greener” falicy, or worse,
petulant bikeshedding.

Regardless, I ask that it stops. Now.
It’s not achieving anything.
openSUSE is not going to implement things just because someone else did it.

We are not Ubuntu, or Apple, nor do we aim to be.

We’re openSUSE, that means we are going to implement that which
openSUSE wants, and the implementation is going to be done by people
doing it on behalf of openSUSE.

That doesn’t mean we should dismiss ideas from elsewhere, on the
contrary, best artists steal, but the reasoning should be based on
what we need, not what they needed.

So, to the whole list, I have a serious request. If all you wish to
contribute to the list is endless wishlisting based on what other
people are doing, stop it.

That level of debate is not welcome here, and it’s exhausting for
those like Michal and I who would much rather be exerting our energies
on things that we can, and will, change on behalf of openSUSE.

Back to the topic - I think the blacklisting of legacy filesystems is
a good idea. I trust Martin and Jeff will incorporate some of the
feedback from this thread in how they implement this going forward,
but I do not see sufficient grounds for discarding this positive step
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