Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (602 mails)

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[opensuse-factory] Re: [PLEASE SPEAK UP] Disabling legacy file systems by default?
  • From: Jim Henderson <hendersj@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2019 18:45:55 -0000 (UTC)
  • Message-id: <q3n753$39i4$1@blaine.gmane.org>
On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 18:32:17 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:

On 2/1/19 8:19 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:

Well, as it happens, I ran into this recently. I got a new microSD
card that was formatted exfat, and I got whatever the standard message
was.

My solution - STFW for what was needed to run exfat. Search the repos
for anything exfat related, and install them. Then try again and look
at the logs.

And guess what - I got it working. Took all of about 15 minutes.

That's what I did when I first encountered ExFAT on an Ubuntu box, too,
yes.

But ExFAT isn't blacklisted, is it? That's different. IIUIC then even if
the driver is there, it won't be loaded.

My point was that I did some research, and turned up a solution.
Wouldn't have mattered if it was blacklisted or not, I would have found a
solution to it by just reading log files and STFW.

I would likely find THIS thread.

Because, for the most part, people _are_ stupid. Even if they're very
smart and educated in one area, that area probably isn't Linux, and if
it is Linux, it probably isn't *SUSE.

I prefer not to start with the assumption that people are stupid. But
what do I know, I've only been in online communities for about 30 years.
m-/

Isn't that what the community is for?

No, I don't think it is.

The community isn't here to help people who have problems? *boggled*

I mean, as an example, I got a new PC recently at work. It has nVidia
graphics. Getting the nVidia driver working on Tumbleweed was pretty
horrible. After a lot of experimentation, I ended up downloading the
file direct from nVidia US and installing it, because unlike anything in
the repos, AFAICT, this does stuff like blacklisting the "nouveau"
driver for you.

Not relevant to this discussion. Proprietary drivers are by definition
horrible to deal with, and not something the project can do a lot about
because the issues are upstream.

The relevance of this?

Drivers are _hard_, stuff like blacklisting stuff is harder, and
troubleshooting it is not easy.

Determining that something is listed in a file as blacklisted is *not*
harder.

[1] We should try to make it more like that.
[2] We should not blacklist code that people active in the community are
using.

So, if 10 people are using something, we should cater to them?

It's not common sense that if you have a problem that you should look
at the log files?

No!

You know why?

Because that's not how it works on Windows and that's all most PC users
know.

Linux is not Windows. I think anyone who uses Linux knows that.

I think anyone who uses Linux knows they're going to have to learn some
stuff before they can successfully use it.

Hell, anyone who starts using something they're not familiar with
(operating system or otherwise) knows they're going to have to learn
something new.

If I want to learn to fly, I'm not going to complain that because I know
how to drive, it should be easy. I'm going to have to learn some new
stuff.

That's a pretty small audience no matter how you slice it.

That's not the point.

That *is* the point. It doesn't make sense to cater to every small
community out there that might have a need for something that can be
provided by the kernel.

Don't leave edge cases because they're obscure or niche because it's a
law of nature they'll come back and bite you.

The edge case here is security issues that affect everyone - and taking a
security stance that eliminates potential vectors of attack -
particularly with little-used or unmaintained code is a completely
reasonable approach.

Or are you (and all those who are saying this is a bad idea) offering to
step up and maintain that unmaintained and relatively little-used code so
my systems that don't need those filesystems aren't vulnerable? If so,
that's very kind of you and much appreciated.

But I suspect that's not the case; you want usability for your niche use-
cases at the expense of the broader community's system security.

Thanks, but no thanks.
--
Jim Henderson
Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits

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