Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (602 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: jounald
Am 05.02.19 um 21:43 schrieb Michal Suchánek:
On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 18:57:31 +0100
Stefan Seyfried <stefan.seyfried@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Am 05.02.19 um 18:32 schrieb Liam Proven:

Second reason: because we have blasted systemd now and as a result of
that, half the most common basic logfiles have bally well disappeared
and are now in some binary log format I don't know, hidden I don't know
where and only viewable by a tool I don't know.

Well, digging through a zillion of log files in /var/log is certainly
You can even grep those zillion files. And it does not take hours to
extract them from the journal database in case you have moderately busy
system. But that's not a problem that happens on personal notebooks
such as Lennart's or yours, sure.

A "moderately busy server" can still easily log to syslog in addition to
the journal. All my machines do. And I am one of the customers that
created Service requests about supportconfig taking 8 hours(!) to dump
the journal from the ramdisk(!!) on SLES12, and I really hate how some
of it is (or was) implemented, because I looked at the code early to
find out why it worked so badly on rotating rust.
So I'm in no way suggesting that the journal is a perfect solution.

But Liam's narrative that "it's totally impossible to debug a system
using the journal is just fake news.

(And he is not running a busy server, or he would not be complaining
about NVidia drivers on TW).

easier than "journalctl -b", which shows you all relevant logs from this
boot (not the old, irrelevant ones)
It even shreds the old, irrelevant ones for you so when something stops
working you cannot compare with with logs from the time it did work.
and even marks them with colors
according to the severity level.
systemd is generally not a bad idea. The documentation sucks, however.
And the implementation comes with some odd defaults very flawed pieces,
such as journald.

journald has an interface different from anything else you have to
learn just to view your logs on systemd diseased system.

Certainly. But it's not impossible to use, and you do not need hours of
fruitless googling to find out how to use it.

That would be
excusable if the tool was good but it brings no real advantage and
really poor performance.

Personally, I find "journalctl -b" , "journalctl -b -1" a really useful
feature, much better than searching for the right "rsyslog restart" mark
in /var/log/messages.

Maybe you need to do more research before you bash something

The only thing I'm maybe bashing is the "I am not going to learn new
things, but want to run the latest rolling release" attitude shown by
some participiants of this list.
Stefan Seyfried

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over
public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman
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