Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (633 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Yast (and some console programs) not correctly displaying
On 1/21/19 12:07 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 21/01/2019 10.48, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
On 1/19/19 10:27 AM, Rainer Hantsch wrote:
[...]

#1: Why was -> System -> Language -> Detail "Locale-Settings for user root"
removed from Yast? Should be re-inserted. There is absolutely no reason
for removing it, it only forces users to namually edit
/etc/sysconfig/language.

You seem to assume that YaST developers enjoy removing functionality
just for the fun of it.

I did a little bit of research and it looks like that option was removed
as part of a needed adaptation to systemd. Unfortunately, systemd has
changed a lot how the locale management works. Adapting YaST to it may
have consequences that are not obvious to everybody at first glance.
Which is quite different from "absolutely no reason for removing it".

Ok, but you see, we have no way to know unless you tell us in the
release notes, for instance.

There are 10+ people working on YaST full-time, every working day before
one release and the next one. That's A LOT of changes and adaptations.

I guess bigger figures apply to Gnome, Plasma, the kernel,
YourFavouriteSoftwareInTheDistribution.

I don't think it's realistic to cover all changes to all pieces of the
distribution in the release notes.

You may say we should cover the important changes, or the unexpected
ones, or the visible ones... Which brings the question about what
"important", "unexpected" or "visible" means for everyone (spoiler: it's
completely different for every reader).

We blog about the changes every two weeks, we have detailed changelog
files for each component of YaST, we contribute to the distribution
release notes with things we consider worth mentioning there and we do
all the development openly (i.e. for every character changed in the YaST
code you can find the Github's pull request).

Please don't ask us to, in addition to all the above, know what is
important to every one of our users and knock on their doors to present
an individual report for each of them covering their interests.

I had not noticed the change in YaST, because I don't change root's
locale. I see in "/etc/sysconfig/language" for 15.0 this paragraph:

# This defines if the user "root" should use the locale settings
# which are defined here.
# Value "ctype" means that root uses just LC_CTYPE.
# Value "yes" means that root uses the full settings..
#
ROOT_USES_LANG="ctype"


If the variable is there, why can't YaST touch it? Why is this affected
by systemd?

I'm not complaining, but I simply do not understand.

Maybe YaST did something more than change that variable, or maybe the
variable is also ignored.

I would need to invest some time researching in order to provide an
answer to each of those questions. Specially since the transition from
the old way of managing locale to the systemd one has been (and still
is) a tortuous path full of pitfalls.

I fear I don't have the time for that right now (working on pushing Leap
15.1 out). Sorry.

But I'm pretty sure it was not done lightheartedly. Maybe the developer
who did the change (Jiri Srain) can tell you more if you are interested
enough and ask him.

Sometimes (not always), things can be re-engineered to find a way to
bring some old functionality back, but in a way that is
systemd-compliant and avoids side effects. Unfortunately, that's more
complex than "should be re-inserted".

For further reference, this is the change in Github:
https://github.com/yast/yast-country/pull/149

Huh. That's like greek to me, sorry.

Fortunately is not Greek, but Ruby. ;-)

Cheers.
--
Ancor González Sosa
YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH
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