Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (536 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: Opening private bugs

On 29/05/18 00:49, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 28/05/18 10:46 AM, Simon Lees wrote:
In order to make this process slightly easier and more formal during las
weeks board discussion the board decided to the mailing list
opensuse-bugshare@xxxxxxxxxxxx where community members can send an email
then a volunteer SUSE employee can read the bug report then either open
it or provide a summary.

Currently this is a short term solution, SUSE Engineering understands
this problem and will be working toward a better solution longer term.

I hope this is a short term and I'm not happy with it.
I'm already subscribed to about half a dozen <something>-opensuse.o.o lists.
many of them are very low volume. In a different world I could see them not
separate from a more general single list and then filter/flag/sort them in my
reader. Readers are very capable these days.

So far, Simon, your reported proposals have been about increasing the
proliferation of lists we need to subscribe to and reducing the focus.
I can see how it makes life easier for (some) developers, but I don't think it
makes life simpler or easier for those of us who have to run and/or maintain
systems for our employers and clients.

As I said, elsewhere, not all problems are bugs.
Those that are not are better solved by the Wisdom of Crowds than annoying a
single developer who has limited time and patience.

Apart from that, there is an inherent assumption that I'm not sure is valid
enough to make this workable. It is that a SUSE employees will take time out
from addressing the needs of the paying clients, the ones that are paying his
salary, to address the needs of a 'maverick' outsider who isn't. I'm sure
there are kind and generous souls who will do this, but memories of first line
support for a UNIX shops was that it was a 'rite of passage' that new hires
though and that management demanded the developers do once in a while to
them that "It was the paying customers who matter". They resented that.
back when I SysAdmin'd a AIX shop and was submitting at least 4 bug reports a
day, REAL bug reports that had the developers in Texas mad at me, the local
manager assigned a new hire to field my reports. "She'll learn more in month
dealing with your reports than most of us learn in a year".
AIX has got a lot better since those early days :-)

But not all problems are bugs. Deep debugging can be challenging and
infuriating, but the resolution gives satisfaction.
Dealing with users making their own <strike>idiocies</strike> mistakes into
reports is frustrating and annoying.

I hope this *IS* a short term solution since in the longer term the Suse
developers will get annoyed enough to stop volunteering <strike>to deal with

You completely missunderstand this whole thread, no one needs to
subscribe to another mailing list here (we expect you not to be
subscribed to use this list). The only people subscribed to this list
are SUSE employees willing to work through the bugs.

Also give us a little credit, before creating the list we attempted to
make sure we have enough employee's volunteering to make this work,
currently Richard and myself have both volunteered as have two other
people, if demand for this gets so great that we can't manage then we
will atleast have a much greater idea of the need and the board will be
able to take that to SUSE Management and ask them for further
assistance. The whole idea started because some of us have been asked
about bugs or seen questions raised about them on obs / irc / mailing
lists and have then gone and got the information or made the bug public
this process is just slightly formalising something that is already
happening within the community.


Simon Lees (Simotek)

Emergency Update Team
SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30
GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

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