Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (1324 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] dumbfounded by Enlightenment


On 10/30/2015 02:49 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
Simon Lees composed on 2015-10-29 20:43 (UTC+1030):

Sorry for the late reply i'm the openSUSE maintainer in my spare time
and some weeks I don't get to checking this list that quickly and the
high volume of traffic in the last week hasn't helped. I am not a
regular enlightenment developer although I do submit occasional patches.
Given alot of enlightenment developers are in similar enough timezones
to me I spend a reasonable amount of time chatting to them on IRC so I
can answer most of your questions.
I guess I should start by confirming your running the enlightenment
package rather then e17, given you mentioned Leap I will presume so.
Firstly I would recommend trying the software renderer which in
enlightenment is exceptionally good, it runs well on the well over 5yo
Athlon Turion X2 i'm writing this email from it also runs pretty
reasonably on my ODroid C1 (rpi clone) to enable it "Settings ->
Composite->Rendering" In that dialog you can also disable effects which
may help. Unfortunately there has always been performance issues with
that Card / driver combo.
The comment that compositors are slow is a common misconception brought
about firstly by compiz and possibly added to by kde and gnome,
benchmarking was done when enlightenment went compositor only and it
found that the compositor didn't add significant performance decreases.
By making the compositor a hard requirement a lot of code paths were
rewritten to be much simpler which reduced alot of bugs. But the key
driver was wayland, e20 which will be released in the next couple of
months will ship with full wayland support including xwayland, in order
to work with wayland you need to have a compositor and the enlightenment
devs believe that wayland will be the future hence there focus here.
It is well known that the enlightenment configuration dialogs are a mess
they have slowly evolved over 15 years without a huge amount of thought,
now that wayland support is there rewriting all the config dialogs is
the main aim for e21 which will hopefully be around for openSUSE Leap 42.2
Bad config dialogs amount to a blocker for me. I'm too old to deal with this
kind of usability obstacle. Functionality is far more important than visual
appeal here.

As for themes the enlightenment theme engine is incredibly powerful and
flexible unfortunately that also makes it incredibly complex it would
probably take atleast a month full time work to develop a completely new
theme, given that the widget set in enlightenment has only really been
stable for the last 2 years themers are only just starting to catch up.
Jeff Hoogland from the bodhi Linux team has just got a couple of themes
mostly complete and a couple of others are starting to spring up so
expect 42.2 to have a much better theme selection, thats going to be my
aim for the next release. The main thing I spent time on last release
was backporting app indicator systray support into the version of
nm-applet that ships with openSUSE so that for the first time openSUSE
users have some form of network manager integration in enlightenment.
I've nearly always managed to be content with default upstream theming.
Ignoring DOS and vtty shells, I don't recall ever encountering a dark
upstream default before. I strongly favor things being workable out of the
box. For me, light on dark does not work.

If you would like a lighter theme try installing
enlightenment-theme-openSUSE-ice it does still have the 13.2 branding
which is mostly because I couldn't make a light theme look good against
a wallpaper thats almost all black. I also have some scripts for
customising themes if you want to try
http://simotek.net/tech/projects/opensuse-e/darkmod-enlightenment-theme-converter/
Personally I am working on a new theme
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCO3pKdUkAAs_sQ.jpg:large
Both of those URLs are typical examples of why some people hate using
computers and/or the web. Everything is painfully tiny by default. It causes
the proverbial chicken/egg situation. Tools may or may not exist to undo
tiny, but because even when they exist they're tiny, they're unusable in
solving the too-tiny problem.

Taking the dialog on first open of E as example, it's good in that it wants
to make it easy to correct to sizing problem, bad in the starting base being
smallest possible selection. It's far easier for a user who wants smaller to
downsize than it is for a user who needs larger to upsize.

The developer population is obviously thinly populated by those who have
worse than average vision. People with trouble seeing tend to be drawn to
occupations where sitting in front of a computer screen most of the time is
not part of the job description. Thus, developer vision overall is better
than average, and more than just a little bit, leading to smaller being OK or
even standard, which in turn leads to more objects fitting into any given
design space. That in turn leads to trouble for those who need bigger
objects. Spaces become too busy, crowded, not uncommonly to the point of
total obstacle to usability.
Enlightenment has quite good scaling, you probably missed it in the first run wizard you can change it from "Settings Panel -> Look -> Scaling" Which will only effect enlightenment and its windows, believe it or not you can make it smaller so its not the smallest.
As for resizing windows the easiest way is holding down the Win key and
using left click and drag you can also grab the bottom corners of the
windows and click and drag but the bottom window border is rather small,
something i've never liked.
Dependance on Win keys amounts to another killer for me. I've not found a
satisfactory keyboard to have been made in over two decades.[1] Every
satisfactory keyboard I've ever seen was made before Win keys first appeared.
Well the keybindings are configurable, thats just the default, alt for example moves windows and I mostly suggested them because the window borders are small and tricky (on the themes i'm developing i'm making them bigger and easier)
If you need any more help I tend to get to reading this list eventually
and am generally on irc during my business hours and some evenings GMT
+10:30 otherwise there is very helpful people in #e, #opensuse-e and
enlightenment-users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thanks for the feedback
It appears there's no point in my pursuing E. Had I seen this little bit from
Wikipedia

Enlightenment developers have referred to it as
"the original eye-candy window manager".

I wouldn't even have tried it. I do appreciate the time you took to reply.

[1] Examples of satisfactory keyboards can be seen here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northgate_Computers#/media/File:Omnikey102p3248.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ErgoLogicFlexProKB2652.jpg
Well the enlightenment devs never tried to make everyone happy, i'll take the feedback on and try and add a minimalist non eye candy theme for 42.2

Cheers

Simon
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