Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (458 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Timeline and roadmap V2
  • From: Jason <relentropy@xxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2014 00:33:07 +0800
  • Message-id: <8922629.upzzuHmo6G@thinkpad.laptop>
On Sunday, February 02, 2014 16:56:45 agustin benito bethencourt wrote:
Hi,


Hi, I'm a long time user and just wanted to chip in on this subject. From a
user point of view

I will try to summarize the main points:

1.- openSUSE Team want an integration process driven by the community, not
by us like it is now.

What does this even mean? As an openSUSE Team, you should be the one in
charge of integration and guidance. This sounds like relinquishing control
over distribution to volunteers.

2.- oS Team wants to open the process and make, at the same time, design it
in a way that the main tasks can be done under volunteer basis.

Here's the thing: this process and its design should be having a clear picture
before jumping coming out with the first mail and having everyone and their
mother add to confusion.

3.- openSUSE Team want Factory to be "usable". This will allow us, among
other effects, to create a better Release for our users.

This, by its definition of Factory existence, cannot be achieved, and
shouldn't be. In the context I'm picking up from Your point, the only 'usable'
scenario is a system for devs and bleeding edge, experienced users who know
how to fix their system _when_ it breaks. Here you'd probably need a sizable
volunteer team and that should be advertised. Besides, that 'usable' scenario
is probably more fitting to Tumbleweed anyway.

4.- To accomplish the above goals, we need to introduce some intrusive
changes. Some of them require research, not just development.

Again, skeleton of those should have been put forward first.

4.- openSUSE Team cannot deliver a Release (as 13.1) while introducing those
changes. we will keep Factory working though.

5.- openSUSE Team agrees that November is a good timing for releasing a
"result", as some of you suggested.

The definition should be put forward first.

6.- Since openSUSE Team cannot predict today how that "result/release" will
look like, we defined a deadline for that definition. I share the concerns
about uncertainty being negative.
7.- If some of you take over some (or all) of the tasks related with the
Release, that deadline can be moved (earlier) or even erased. It would be up
to those working on the Release.

I'm sorry, I don't want to offend you, but this is astonishing. Act, then
react. You (pl) don't even know what the structure or plan should be, the
statement simply reeks of disorganization and uncertainty. As a distro
leadership/mentorship, it must be demanded more.

8.- After this research/development phase the oS Team will go back to work
on the Release as usual, hopefully focusing our efforts in "users" after
improving Factory.

I see this period we are heading as an opportunity to deprecate some of the
technical problems we have been struggling with for some time. The more
people we have focusing in the new plan, the better. This is why we take
engagement in the development as one of the main topics.

What IS the new plan?

If some of you prefer to work on the current Release, taking over part (or
all) of the work we usually do, or adapting the current process to your
needs, I think we (project) also win. it would be very good news.

The topics we are talking about are relevant so I think heated debates are
expected and even good. I just hope that we can focus the debate on the
future actions, instead of increasing the impact of the mistakes I have
made in the communication area or getting too personal.

I case you doubt it, let me be clear about this...

I am committed to the project and my colleagues too. openSUSE Team have not
changed his focus. The openSUSE Release (incl. Factory) is and will be our
main focus, like in the past.

Pardon me for jumping in on this and please forgive if I might be offending.
But if you're to debate such issues in public mailing list, do know what you
want to do and discuss.

Kind regards,
'user'

On Thursday 30 January 2014 13:12:17 Michal Hrusecky wrote:
Hi all,

As you know we had a week-long meeting in Nuremberg. Quite a few of the
things we've been working on (openQA, OBS workflow etc) were shared by
now.
Besides discussing features, we scheduled our work.

In the previous thread on $SUBJECT, Simon noted that going for a release
in
November seemed a far smarter compromise between the benefits of releasing
and getting some improvements in our tool chain than skipping a release.
Most of the team agreed on this right away and we'd like to go for that.

However. This does not mean the initial idea of doing a more 'relaxed'
release is off the table. Planning software development is hard, planning
experimentation (like the staging projects we are toying with) is
impossible so we can not predict when we will be done. This means that we
still intend to take those of you who stepped forward to help out with
the release up on their offer. The exact nature of what we release is
still to be determined and we'd like to make a more final decision on how
much effort we can and will put in in August. So far it is sure that we
would need some volunteer to keep eye on Factory and release milestones
at least till then.

So, for now, this will be a 'community release'. This might mean less QA
but also no security updates provided by SUSE! Especially if it comes to
the latter case we should communicate this carefully to our users as it
will be more like a slightly more stabilized milestone than a successor
to openSUSE 13.1. How to call it, how to communicate and what exactly it
will look like - August.

When exactly we will be fully back to working on Factory, releasing
milestones, and working on the release we will hopefully be able to
determine in August as well.

Thoughts?
The openSUSE Team

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