Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (776 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] BtrFS as default fs?
On 09/04/2013 08:05 AM, Jeff Mahoney wrote:
On 9/3/13 8:25 PM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
On 09/03/2013 04:59 PM, Jeff Mahoney wrote:
On 9/3/13 7:57 PM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
On 09/03/2013 02:02 PM, Jeff Mahoney wrote:
On 9/3/13 4:56 PM, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 09/03/2013 03:04 PM, Jeff Mahoney pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
On 9/3/13 2:54 PM, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:
On 09/03/2013 10:32 AM, Jeff Mahoney pecked at the keyboard and
wrote:
Hi all -

Last month I posted queries to this list (and several other
locations,
including the forums) asking about people's experiences with
btrfs. For
the most part it seemed like the experience had improved over time.
Most
of the concerns were either with interactions with zypper or old
perceptions of instability that were based more on old impressions
than
new testing. With the exception of an ENOSPC issue that had been
recently fixed, users actively using the file system seemed pretty
satisfied with it.

I posted a followup question a week or two later asking what people
thought about limiting the 'supported' feature set in the way we
do in
SLES so that it's clear to all users which parts of the file
system are
considered stable.

A quick table of what that looks like:

Supported Unsupported
--------- -----------
Snapshots Inode cache
Copy-on-Write Auto Defrag
Subvolumes RAID
Metadata Integrity Compression
Data Integrity Send / Receive
Online metadata scrubbing Hot add/remove
Manual defrag Seeding devices
Manual deduplication (soon) Multiple devices
"Big" Metadata (supported
read-only)

Over time this table will change. Items from the Unsupported list
will
move to the Supported list as they mature.

That proposal was pretty well received except, predictably, by
those
using the features listed. In practice, all that's required for
those
users to continue uninterrupted is to add the 'allow_unsupported=1'
option to the btrfs module either on the kernel command line or
/etc/modprobe.d. There is nothing inherently limiting to any
openSUSE
user with this practice. The features are all still in the code and
available immediately just by setting a flag. It can even be done
safely
after module load or even after file systems that don't use the
unsupported features have been mounted. I intend to introduce this
functionality into openSUSE soon.

One other aspect to consider: Even though they are independent
projects,
we've been focusing heavily on btrfs support in the SLES product.
As a
result, the openSUSE kernel will end up getting much of that work
'for
free' since most of the same people maintain the kernel for both
projects.

So that's the "why it's safe" part of the proposal. I haven't
gotten to
the "why" yet, but then you probably already know the "whys".
Subvolumes. Built-in snapshots that don't corrupt themselves
when an
exception table runs out of space. Built-in integrity verification
via
checksums. Built-in proactive metadata semantic checking via
scrubbing.
Online defrag. Soon we'll see online deduplication of arbitrary
combinations of files. The code is written, it just needs to be
pulled
in. You've seen the rest of the feature set. Once we test more
of it
under load and ensure that it's mature enough to roll out,
you'll get
those features for free.

So, I'd like to propose that we use btrfs as the default file
system
for
the 13.1 release before we release the first beta.

Thanks for your time.

-Jeff


Not as long as any items are in the unsupported colume and as
long as
The unsupported features might as well be "unimplemented" for the
purposes of this discussion.

there is no tool to repair a broken filesystem.
There is a btrfsck tool.
OK, I was not aware of this. I just hate to see an "experimental"
filesystem made the default. I also don't want to see the debacle that
we saw with making KDE4 the default when it was clearly alpha at best.
That's why we make the effort of marking some features as immature. The
core file system is stable. It's the additional features that need some
testing time. They may work fine. We just haven't invested the time to
determine which other features are ready and don't want to represent
them as such.


Well, btrfs didn't work for me when trying to configure a single
partition of about
18-TB on 12.3. The filesystem could be created, but would crash half
way through
a "fill-em-up" timing test. I'll try the test again with factory if I
can within the next
few days.
Do you have a bugzilla ID for this?
828229. I filed it on July 12 2013, but haven't heard a thing since then.
Ok, that's a spurious ENOSPC. That's an area where there have been many
fixes in the past year. I don't suppose you still have this array
available to retest with 3.11?


No, the original system is in production. But five more just came in that
I can play with. I hope to get some time with them within a week or so.

Regards,
Lew

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