Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (753 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Help Apper to survive (12.2)
Am Donnerstag, 23. August 2012, 13:51:20 schrieb DenverD:
On 08/23/2012 12:10 PM, Sven Burmeister wrote:
So where is the thread to bash zypper up for wrecking days and systems,
being buggy, removing it from the distro, telling everybody to remove the
package and rename the binary to make sure it cannot cause any trouble
etc.?
you *are* tiring!

Funny to hear that from somebody who took that long to get off his bashing and
polemics regarding apper.

yes, i know (now that someone else [thank you Vincent] took the adult
style trouble to explain the end-to-end package management system to me
(a user not a hacker) that what was reported over and over and over by
new _users_ as an apper problem is actually a stack problem where the
pieces just don't work together in the best interest of any user, and
especially not new users..

Then you still did not get it. What you refer to (apper wrecking the system by
installing no-vendor-change updates) is not a stack problem but apper and pk
simply doing the job as the defaults tell them. So you can call it a default
conf problem if you like. It's not a bug and not a stack issue.

It only becomes a stack problem if zypp-backend+pk(+front-ends) do not do what
the configs tell them, i.e. show a different list of updates than zypper lu
(with defaults) or zypper lp (with HidePackages=yes). That would be a bug and
a stack problem. As the blocking zypper issue for example is.

you might have been able to do that but, instead you elected to teat me
like an idiot with your childish, comedy routine of multiple "Bing!"
"Bing!" "Bing!"

Humour is certainly not your strength. Letting go of polemic views and bashing
neither. But you seem to get better at it. You also seem to prefer polemics
and bashing over allegedly childish phrases following repeated ignorance of
facts.

so, if you care: you can find plenty of examples of _me_ (and others in
the fora) bashing the normal 1-Click Install default of leaving numerous
added "non-default repos" enabled and refreshing..[which the new user
does not know is a risk]

and, you can find plenty of examples of where i have tried to stop the
far too often misuse of zypper 'up' and 'dup' while "non-default repos"
are active..[which the new user does not know is a risk]

and, you can also find similar cries to not use YaST "switch vendor" to
do the same while "non-default repos" are active.. [which the new user
does not know is a risk]

so yes: non-default repos load the gun and apper, packagekit, zypper and
YaST can all be used to pull the trigger..

That sound quite different to "[only] apper wrecks the system/goes wild/is
buggy/should be removed" etc. But I'm glad you finally realised you were wrong
and should have informed yourself better before spreading false information.
While everybody can be wrong, ignorance is not an excuse if one starts right
off with polemics or bashing instead of sensible statements and questions.

so, perhaps 'we' ought to:

1. begin by changing the default behavior of 1-Clicks

2. try to figure out a way to have people born with an understanding our
end-to-end package management system AND the ways it can be deadly.

There have been decisions made for the defaults. Obviously those decisions can
be changed, e.g. by introducing a GUI switch to either show only what zypper
patch would show or what zypper up would show and default to the former.

Without that easy switch you end-up with lots of users complaining about repo
updates not showing up.

Sven
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