Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (753 mails)

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Re: Fwd: Re: [opensuse-factory] Help Apper to survive (12.2)
  • From: Sven Burmeister <sven.burmeister@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 17:10:59 +0200
  • Message-id: <1514273.ghbeeIruBn@linux-ly0d>
Am Montag, 20. August 2012, 07:55:44 schrieb DenverD:
but the problem i'm talking about that not many new in from Windows will
attempt to update/install with zypper (at least until they learn what a
"terminal" is) but they will sure find many dozens of "1-Click Intall"
buttons which by default leave a _wide_ variety of repos enabled (which
the usual new user will happily leave enabled--hey its FREE, so it must
be good to have more and more)....and then apper pops up list of
upgraded software (NOT just from the update repo) and the new users
automatically (seems like--since they are conditioned by their previous
OS) give the go-ahead allowing the pop-up to make their decisions and
just load up conflicting software and kill their system..

I think this shows quite nicely why improving the situation is not that easy.
People confuse and mix-up names, apps, GUIs and use cases etc.

Apper (the KDE app) does not show the user a list of possible choices
including to ignore dependencies. YaST and zypper do. -> apper devs do not
feel addressed.

Apper does show all updates that do not need a vendor change. The reason for
that is a back-end setting. Apper does as it is told, i.e. something like
zypper up instead of zypper patch. -> apper devs do not feel addressed.
everybody else points to the decision taken and the pros and cons.

The term "apper" being used for everything randomly related to packagkit -> no
dev feels addressed, since nobody knows which piece of software the issue does
actually relate to.

People try to kill packakitd but do not disable the service that calls it and
wonder why it always respawns. -> no dev feels addressed because it is
possible to simply disable the service.

then they show up in the forums with blood-shot eyes and 10, 15 or 25
enabled and refreshed repos that apper/package kit is serving death
from...asking why they can no longer boot, or . . .

And its not apper's fault.

So what you want is to revert the decision to show all non-vendor-change
updates. After that you will have the request to show them again. Once you
allow to add third party repos they might also contain security-relevant
updates, hence showing them does make some sense.

The only solution I see is to provide a GUI-option to switch the behaviour.

If you want to prevent users from screwing-up their system apper is not the
piece of software to look at. You will have to restrict one-clicks-installs,
zypper up and YaST's non-YOU update functionality.

The only real issue there seems to be is that people who use zypper notice
that packagekitd does not die fast enough or blocks zypper on some occasions.

Easy solution, those that do not want to use packagkit and do not need an
update notifier simply disable the service calling it.

Those that want to use a notifier and zypper will have to accept that
packagekitd is called from time to time and blocks zypper, as their daily
zypper patch cronjob would do as well.

Hence debugging the daemon, front-end and zypp-back-end's state while
packagekitd respawns endlessly or never finishes is the only thing useful
regarding improving the situation. Removing all Packagkit update notifiers
will not.

Sven
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