Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (753 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Help Apper to survive (12.2)

Op 20-8-2012 9:09, Dominique Leuenberger a.k.a DimStar schreef:

Quoting DenverD <DenverD@xxxxxxx>:

On 08/19/2012 09:18 PM, Sven Burmeister wrote:
Am Sonntag, 19. August 2012, 20:37:40 schrieb DenverD:
explaining to a new user (after their system is trashed) how to disable
apper/packagekit leaves no rational/believable answer to their question:
Why do you include software known to kill a system?

Could you please point out how an app which does not work/does not allow
vendor changes can trash a system in a way zypper etc. cannot?

nope i can't do that..

and, of course we don't even have to use zypper or apper to trash the
system, do we..

but the problem i'm talking about that not many new in from Windows will attempt to update/install with zypper (at least until they learn what a "terminal" is) but they will sure find many dozens of "1-Click Intall" buttons which by default leave a _wide_ variety of repos enabled (which the usual new user will happily leave enabled--hey its FREE, so it must be good to have more and more)....and then apper pops up list of upgraded software (NOT just from the update repo) and the new users automatically (seems like--since they are conditioned by their previous OS) give the go-ahead allowing the pop-up to make their decisions and just load up conflicting software and kill their system..

Well, not arguing about the fact of it breaking systems, but the 'Please offer me all package updates, not only patches' was IIRC a big request, as users felt that they are left out with updates from repos. (From memory.. can't really just fnd references to it at the moment).

In gnome, the 'biggest' issue is probably the lack of a panel icon to configure it, but that should not really be an issue: like anything else, PackageKit is being configured from the control-center, where a link to gpk-prefs is located (allowing to 'disable' updates).

We might as well argue that 'yast' should not interact with libzypp dirctly, but streamline the entire package management through packagekit (thus being a different frontend to PK). As backend, we can still use libzypp.

This would likely allow much easier integration.


My answer does not directly fit seemlessly into this conversation, but i remember that during oS 10. and following, yast had a similar phase, then 'smart' package manager became known as a wrecker of systems.
Yast was even further from the finish as apper now.... and look where yast is now: most prominent packaging system known in the linuxworld, which it is.
This was the phase after the '9 series', and leaving the redhat package management. Yast has improved very much since these days.

The only thing that is not 'fitting' in kde is apper's 'gnomish' style....
I have seen it improve, even the recent updates show progress.

There are some things that are not perfect yet, and what in any case should be solved are the things that show it is not ready: downloadstatus, which is working in both yast and zypper, so that can't be this difficult.

Wrecking the system, is easy if you are not aware what you are doing.

This is also the quick learning curve one has to accept once accepted linux:
How do i wreck my system?
How do i repair it again?

(look at the most beautifull and exiting question there is: How?)

I do agree with those who say: save it, but also to those who say: start doing it.

my 2cts.

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