Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (1134 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Add Edit Feature to Yast Boot Loader using Grub2 for 12.2
On 6/20/2012 3:14 AM, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Josef Reidinger wrote:
[...]
Yes, this way is possible to write grub2 part of yast2 bootloader. But
it doesn't edit grub.cfg. It edits /etc/default/grub from which is
generated grub.cfg (so don't have full control for all configuration,
just subset that grub2 developer decide that you can modify). Grub2
allows even bigger configuration changes, but it contain changes in
generators and it is really tricky part.

That's retarded. Back to the yast1 days of shell script generated config
files? I thought we try to get of SuSEconfig and now we are introducing
a mechanism like SuSEconfig for the boot loader.
What's the killer feature of grub2 that's worth swallowing the bitter
pill of giving up sane yast support?

cu
Ludwig


That aspect of grub2 is the way grub2 works.

It's not a suse or opensuse decision.

I hate it too but the upstream grub developers say it's the only sane way for them to support the wild and dynamic range of boot scenarios that exist today.

I agree that the needs of bootloaders are crazy today vs in the past.

But even if I were to agree that the bootloader needed an interpreted scripting language to provide the flexibility and run-time adaptability required today, I don't see why it has to be a new from-scratch one that no one knows, instead of being something standard that already exists, or at least a subset or superset. For example, as obscure as the freebsd bootloader is, it's at least a standard language, forth. You may or may not like forth as a language for most jobs, but it's been around a long time and it's syntax and methodologies have been documented a lot and it is at least used in a few other places and is useful for some other situations, so learning it isn't a _total_ waste of your time. Learning the grub2 syntax is _only_ good for grub2. Who the heck is ever going to ever get comfortable at that for casual infrequent yet commonly desired edits? I can't do the simplest little thing in grub2 without careful googling and hoping to hell I can find someone elses example that works. The average person will not be able to make common edits, only grub experts will. That's not a desirable design to me no matter what the other benefits.

I also like that:
The bootloader goes from config files (lilo, grub1) to scripting language (grub2), at the same time init goes from scripts (sysv) to config files (systemd).

Can they both be right about the best way to do the job in the future? Is there anything about those two different jobs that really results in this setup being the sanest? I don't think so. I think one or the other approach is saner and applies to both jobs. I think the scripting approach is ultimately more useful so I'm all for grub2 going dynamic, but I just wish it was some standard language that is not a waste of time to learn, and arrange things so that the main config doesn't necessarily require an expert scripter to make common changes. You can write the most complex script and have a section, or a whole separate include-file, that just has basic variable definitions anyone can safely edit.

--
bkw
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