Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (1134 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Calling for a new openSUSE development model
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 11:31:13PM +0200, Obexer Christoph wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 14. Juni 2012, 10:46:32 schrieb Stephan Kulow:
Let's discuss things very openly - I think we learned enough about where
the current model works and where it doesn't so we can develop a new one

Greetings, Stephan

I'm one of those unwanted posters that could become a contributor but won't
the warm welcome on this list as somebody else already pointed out in another
part of this thread.

A while ago i filed a request for just this improvement in /dev/null err
i basically got no attention, so i planned to post here after the 12.2
release - you were faster and i would have been flamed / ignored anyway^^

This is a process change, not a distribution feature... So what we are
discussing here.

I've seen a few openSuSE releases from the Factory perspective (being here
since the KDE4.0 release) and the failure pattern for Factory was always the

1) nobody uses Factory
2) nobody cares for Factory
* feature freeze comes close
3) rush in unstable packages to catch the next release with the wanted version
* as a Factory user you should skip the next 1 or 2 milestones because they
are horrible
4) Beta1
* a few people in the community fix up some of the bugs (and start to look at
5) RC1, better but still not up to where it should be
6) time based release have to go out, "we fix that with an update"

my proposal is - as noted in the Fate entry:

drop Factory
do it tumbleweed style, that is a package goes into release(Tumbleweed) when
its stable and has been tested, if it breaks something -> revert
since Tumbleweed is always stable just release openSuSE $VERSION on time by
copying Tumbleweed into a release repo

You will never be able to do:
- compiler upgrades
- other toolchain upgrades like libtool, automake, autoconf ... all of whiuch
usually break their share of packages
- gnome, kde changes that break non-core-gnome/kde apps
- perl upgrades, python upgrades, etc.

all of these happen in Factory and will not be possible with your model.

New toolchain things _BREAK_ other stuff ... either by incompatibility or
bitrotting. It needs to be fixed.

doing this the right way would make openSuSE a whole lot more stable IMHO,
and it would also attract more contributors,

See above, it would basically turn us to an effective stand still.

because getting something in the hands of actual users could be done as a
weekend project, instead of a multiple month time investment

i could go into more detail, but I'm unwanted here so i try to keep it short

I the hope this is being well received and it might improve openSuSE

A bit more rolling upgrades like Tumbleweed would be possible ... But again,
chaning foundations
is not possible in your model I think.

Ciao, Marcus
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