Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (955 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] harping on the "SUSE controls openSUSE" crap.
OK, my last response.

On 10/25/2011 03:56 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Robert Schweikert wrote:

On 10/25/2011 02:47 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Robert Schweikert wrote:

OK, after a number of years where we have worked really hard to hand
control of the project to the community and have opened a lot of
tools and processes to the community you still are harping on the
"SUSE controls openSUSE" crap. This ticks me off big time.

It's surely a fact nonetheless. Are you disputing that?

Yes I am.

There are very
few (if any) mechanisms for the community at large to make community

What kind of mechanisms are you looking for? For what decisions do we
need these mechanisms?

Any and all. Or is it just old-fashioned anarchy?

Perhaps openSUSE isn't controlled by SUSE, but it certainly
isn't controlled by the community either:

Well "someone" made the decision to have KDE as the default desktop,
and "someone" made the decision about the new numbering scheme, and
"someone" made the decision about the release cycle, and .....

Right, like you say so eloquently, "someone".

I'll give you a hint, these decisions were not made by SUSE.

Don't be shy, give me more than a hint, how were those decisions made?

For the version numbering we had a long therad on the -project mailing list and then we voted.

For instance, for a while Frederic Crozat (formerly with Mandriva, now
SUSE) has been in charge of coordinating/running/whatever the systemd
integration targeted for 12.1 - I don't remember anyone publicly asking
the community (paid or otherwise) for volunteers for that job?

This sounds like Jon "Maddog" Hall's favorite tag line. "People are waiting for a letter of permission". That's not how things work. Federic stepped up to the plate and decided he wanted to do this. I do not know why, maybe because Fedora has systemd, maybe he is interested in reducing distribution differences in areas that are rather silly. You'll have to ask Federic about his motivation. He stepped up to the plate and is doing the work. Similar Ilya is stepping up to the plate to maintain KDE3 and he is doing the work, I doubt Ilya sat around an waited for the "letter of permission".

Nobody asked my to do anything in the project either, I just do what I do because I like it or because I see a need for things to get done.

I don't
even remember the community being asked if Frederic was a good
candidate. (absolutely NO criticisms aimed at Frederic here).

Everyone in the community who steps up to work is a good candidate. We, as a community, have no authority to dole out work based on perceived qualifications.

We don't yet have a foundation,

That has nothing to do with the direction of the project. I am not
sure why everyone thinks that having a foundation will be this "great
liberating event".

I didn't suggest either. I do however submit that after several years,
the lack of a foundation is a problem (although largely symbolic).

As far as I am concerned there will be a bunch of problems that the
community has to deal with that we do not have today. Any volunteer
for a treasurer yet?

Has there actually been a call for volunteers? I'll volunteer, I have a
good Treuhand in Oerlikon who can do the books.

Again, why does it take a "call for". If you are interested in doing this job step up to the plate. The people working on the foundation effort are well know, send them an e-mail, join the foundation mailing list, do some of the work that goes along with it. There is no reason to sit around and wait. There will be no "letter of permission".

Any volunteers to do fund raising? There's a whole list that Alan is
working on for things the community will have to take over once we
have a foundation. I am not sure people are aware of all if these
things nor am I certain we as a community have the volunteers to do
all the work.

Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to having a foundation, however,
there's a big ball of administrative crap work rolling towards the
community and I am not sure we are prepared to deal with it.


many key "community" positions are (apparently) occupied by SUSE
staff. We can't even get an official list of who is staff and who
isn't (a while ago I asked about an organigramm and only got given a
long run-around by Andreas Jaeger).

Well, I think the org chart of SUSE is not the business of the

Nor do I, but an org chart of the openSUSE community is the business of
the community, and that is all I asked for. Or is there a reason to
keep it from us?

It's a community there is no org chart. Jos is the community manager, and we have the openSUSE board, that's it as far as organization is concerned. Projects are lead by those that contribute.

and in the end what is the difference if SUSE pays 1, 10,
or 20 people to work on openSUSE full time. The project and the
community benefits from the contribution.

The numbers don't matter, the names and jobs do.

Why? Everyone is just a member of the community. If you have issues that need "escalation" we have the board.

Why is it so hard to just treat us, the SUSE employees as regular
community members?

Because it, to us outsiders, is so very obvious that you're not.
Especially when you insist you are. "The lady doth protest to much,

That one goes both ways, take a look in the mirror.

Done, no more replies from me on this thread.


SUSE-IBM Software Integration Center LINUX
Tech Lead
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