Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (710 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] The road to systemd for openSUSE 12.1
  • From: Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:09:32 +0200
  • Message-id: <1308571774.1454.24.camel@mop>
On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 10:35 +0200, Dr. Werner Fink wrote:
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 07:11:50PM +0200, Kay Sievers wrote:
On Fri, 2011-06-17 at 18:54 +0200, Dr. Werner Fink wrote:

This is a bug of systemd and a violation of the FSH standard.
For server systems a nogo.

Yeah, it's a violation of the rules of the stone age. Many of them just
don't make sense anymore. We need to pick the nice parts of UNIX, and
leave the silly things behind us to be able to survive. And the split
of / and /usr very high on the list of things we like to get rid of.

There is more than / and /usr, also /tmp, /var, and /boot is
IMHO a very important point. Why do you think, most seasoned
system adminstrators will mostly use different partitions for
/ and /usr, /tmp, and /var. Particular /tmp and /var will
be separate partitions.

Sure they will. What are you talking about?

Anyway, FHS documents current behavior, it can not be violated. If the
current behavior changes, FHS needs to change, and people actually
working on that.

FHS is very useful to argument against something, we all use it that way
from time to time, and if it is in our way we just ignore it, just like
we did with /run. It's very convenient, everybody wins. :)

OK let's disregard the most important clientele by ignoring
the most useful experience by declaring those experience as
stone aged.

Yes. The split of / and /usr makes no sense anymore. And the 1000th time
for you: It has nothing to do with systemd!

My hope was to have with systemd a real replacment for SysV able
to serve all needs for all customer out there, that is not only
openSUSE users on netbook and other mobile devices but also needs
of our business customer on their big irons.

As said earlier. Most of the requests actually come from enterprise
customers. And again: / vs. /usr is not about systemd.

Enterprise customers want to share the _entire_ system across 1000 of
guests, which means they share /usr read-only, mount a host
specific /etc and /var a tmpfs /tmp, and are done with it. And nobody
want or need needs to manage all the randomly defined and split-off
directories in the the rootfs.

And unlike the random split of tools across many duplicated directories,
that exact same model makes sense on a phone, on a netbook, a
workstation and on a big server. We are aiming for a default
read-only /usr on every box.

That stuff shows up now it's just because services have more
dependencies today and more and more stuff fails when the system is
tried to be brought up with only half of the tools available.

Splitting / and /usr is broken for a very long time before systemd, and
nothing will change that fact that you try to blame systemd for it or
insult its developers. I'm out of that "dicussion" now.


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