Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (710 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [opensuse-factory] The road to systemd for openSUSE 12.1
  • From: Guido Berhoerster <gber@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 20:28:39 +0200
  • Message-id: <20110611182839.GC4147@wopr.local.invalid>
* Greg KH <gregkh@xxxxxxx> [2011-06-11 18:39]:
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 10:41:56AM +0200, Guido Berhoerster wrote:
* Frederic Crozat <fcrozat@xxxxxxxx> [2011-06-10 19:04]:
systemd is coming for next openSUSE (12.1) scheduled next fall.

As far as I'm aware there was only one recent discussion on this
this list about it [1] which started with the premise that systemd
will be the default for 12.1. I'd like to know who has decided
when and for what reasons that systemd will be the default for
12.1? More specifically, what alternatives were considered and why
and how is systemd serving the openSUSE project better in the
long term?

There is only one alternative, and that package is no longer being
maintained or developed, so there really isn't anything else to choose

As for why to switch, you did read the long series of posts about
systemd for admins, right? All of those things are stuff that users
want, and care about, why would we not provide them?

This was not about offering systemd as an option, but part of the
proposal ("phase 3") was to replace SysV init files with native
systemd files. And an init daemon is not any arbitrary package,
fully comitting to an implementation has long-term consequences.
Hence, I would expect some kind of decision-making based on some
real considerations rather than just following the latest buzz
and the quite vocal promotion of its author.

I admit that I disapprove of its approach to cram everything but
the kitchen sink into an init daemon (including stuff completely
unrelated to init such as (auto)mounting, handling LUKS volumes,
controlling the system locale, time, and hostname, replacing
ConsoleKit, or the planned per-user session-startup
functionality) rather thank keeping it simple and doing one thing
well (a design philosophy which has served Un*x systems rather
well in terms of functionality, security, and sustainability of
codebases). So far it's not even clear where this will end.

It does one thing well, the rest is supported by helper scripts and

Do you have an alternative that you think should be used instead?

I'd really like to have an answer to my initial questions
(including why we have to switch the default init system at all
right now). But the alternatives I am aware of are sysvinit which
we are using right now and upstart, given the (im)maturity of
systemd, the lack of clarity where the scope of systemd will
eventually end, and my aforementioned concerns I'd consider both
of these the lesser evil.

And note, we aren't talking about taking away the choice to use systemv
from what I can tell, you can always go back to that if you want to for
some reason.

Following, see above.

Guido Berhoerster
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