Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (661 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] The Future of SaX2
  • From: Egbert Eich <eich@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 15:25:10 +0100
  • Message-id: <20091203142510.GQ14203@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Wed, Dec 02, 2009 at 05:45:58PM +0100, Lubos Lunak wrote:
On Tuesday 01 of December 2009, Egbert Eich wrote:

The resources needed to keep SaX2 in sync with changes in X.Org will
exceed what the people at Novell who have been maintaining SaX2 next
to their normal work tasks in the past few years are able to spare.

Thus starting with openSUSE 11.2 SaX2 will no longer be offered as
a configuration option in YaST.

openSUSE 11.2 was released almost a month ago. That not only makes the tense
used in the sentence incorrect, but it also makes it hard to do something

Lubos, I appreciate that you take note of the details ;P

about the cases which need adjustment. Such as, let me think, the case when
one wants to change the global keyboard layout (in xDM) or the case when the
KDE display tool is designed to change the screen setup during a session but
not quite so to do the initial setup (where one would somehow expect that X's
initial setup is X's responsibility). And frankly I'm getting tired of
finding out about such changes the hard way, thanks for reminding me that I
wanted to bring this up. I'll keep that for a separate mail.

But is this a problem that has popped up exactly yesterday?
xorg.conf also had a static xkb setup which may not have been suitable for
login for a particular user. The global xorg.conf keyboard setup generated
by SaX2 was derived from the setting of KEYTABLE in /etc/sysconfig/keytable.

The situation is not much different today: today a keyboard mapping is
generated for HAL which obtains its information from much the same tables
SaX2 did.
This btw happens in the xDM login scripts. Any time the keyboard setup changes
this table is regenerated. HAL will pick it up and communicate the changed
information to the next Xserver that asks for it.

It has been discussed for years that a display manager should have a way
to change the keyboard layout for user login. I'm truely sorry if you have
missed this discussion.

As for the actual problem, so what exactly is the theory about how things
should be done now? My personal theory would be that X people decided that
everything now works automagically and in the case when not those unlucky
should be smart enough to know xinitrc, so maybe even some X guy told a GNOME

Only for the cases where there is no tool or the tool is not sufficient.
Part of the purpose of this discussion is to get people to test and report

guy in the next office at RH. KDE now will have to do the same and who cares

No, the gnome tool was done by Federico. He's not working for RH as you
may know.

about the rest if they don't know xinitrc, huh? Is that far off or did I
guess right? Are now each desktop really to do the X setup during their
startup whenever X doesn't get something right?

No, it is to do the user customization. This has been the case for the
keyboard for a long time already. KDE (as you may know) has offered a
tray applet which allows to change keyboard layouts on the fly. It even
allowed to configure each keyboard layout in the list in great detail.

Even for mode setting KDE has been supplying krandrtray which may not
be as powerful as the gnome tool at the moment but does its job reasonable
But Lubos, why are you complaining here and rant at me? It has never been
my suggestion that every desktop is reinventing the wheel and comes
along with its own incarnation of every tool.

I personally doubt that it would have made a huge difference had we
communicated things early on in the 11.2 release cycle. I've seen
bug reports for X coming in. Many of the rather obvious and quite
visible bugs have not been reported until the 2 or 3 weeks prior to
the release.


Egbert Eich (Res. & Dev.) SUSE LINUX Products GmbH
X Window System Development
Tel: +49 911-740 53 0
SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)
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