Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (626 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Just one question about plane to release openSUSE 11.0 with KDE 4.1
  • From: Oddball <monkey9@xxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:47:40 +0100
  • Message-id: <47D1396C.6050303@xxxxxx>
Martin Schlander schreef:
Fredag den 7. Marts 2008 12:08:30 skrev Felix-Nicolai Müller:
Having KDE4 as main DE has got several backdrafts:
1. It is not ready.
2. It takes a lot of effort to make it ready.
This solution openSUSE is taking is ugly from a technical standpoint as
mixing kde3 and kde4 programms is just messy. No one really knows how
KDE4 will be changed in the process of developing it and if everything
will really work out compatibillity wise. How to port the Data from KDE3
to KDE4 once the KDE4 app is ready, etc, pp. There will be confusion and
possibly data loss among unexperienced users.
It is also ugly from a users standpoint, as one now has to use KDE3
software in a KDE4 framework. It will probably not look that good, feel
different and break the user feeling of consistent and logical software
(design wise).

If users wanted a stable system why do they insist on always adding as many BS repos as humanly possible and 'zypper up -t package' more often than they brush their teeth?

As Justin Steinman and Ted Haeger have been telling everybody who would listen openSUSE users are "geeks and enthusiasts".
There are several benefits of having KDE4.x as main DE.
1. Many (most?) users want the latest greatest - even if it's rough and buggy - if openSUSE doesn't provide it easily they will go to Fedora and Kubuntu who does.
2. Using KDE4.x as default makes it easier for users to upgrade to 4.1.x later on when it's "ready" - from the BS repos. Remember that 11.0 will probably last for 7-9 months.
3. KDE4.0 has lots of eyecandy, but also many improvements in features and usabillity.
4. It will help make 11.1 the world domination release that I think it can become.
5. It'll help upstream KDE

However I'm fully in agreement that there will be huge problems. Choice between KDE3 and KDE4 at this point is a matter of pick your poison. Either we piss off the users that like to be productive, or we piss off the people that want to live on the bleeding edge.
If it were up to me I'd simply postpone release of 11.0 for 3-4 months so we could not only have 4.1.0, but maybe 4.1.2 - and drop KDE3 as a desktop. Of course some KDE3 apps would most likely still be needed.

Since that doesn't appear to be an option, something else must be done. We should communicate aggressively that people should think twice before installing 11.0 (with KDE4.0), and maybe they should even consider skipping 11.0 completely. But then again, that was tried for KDE4.0 and it seemed noone paid attention.. :-/

Personally I'm considering not moving to 11.0 on my main box until 4.1 is available in the BS. Time will tell how good 4.0 can become. And how much better 4.1 will actually be..
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A cent, or two..

Pro's/Con's, OK.

Reality: KDE4 is developing so fast towards a usefull desktop, that it is almost incredible to believe...

It is so nice to use this fast, totaly flexible and scalable desktop, that i hardly use the old 10.3 KDE3...anymore..

There are realy made achievements in speed in overall use, and i do not want to cheer to early, but i think that if this desktop 'realy' has been used, very few will long back to the past.

The way i see it, it is not that 'very' important to get it 'totaly' bugfree, because that would simply be not possible, as there are still kde3 bugs now.

And true: openSUSE 'bleeds', 'cause of the continuing adaption and development.
The user chooses to be part of that, or not.

But for those who want stability, there are 10.2 and 10.3, so there is not a real problem.


As everybody is doing the best he/she can, i can only hope that there will be time left to get the 3 main 3th. party apps fully integrated before the 'launch',
but if not: so be it.
Than they will later..


And personaly, but that may be clear from me statements, it is only obvious to use KDE4, because from what i see every day, it gets better by the minute..
(no time to rest as ceasar yet;)

--

Enjoy your time around,


Oddball (Now or never...)


Besturingssysteem: Linux 2.6.24.1-6-default x86_64
Current user: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1
System: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha2
KDE: 4.0.1 (KDE 4.0.1) "release 20"

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