Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-buildservice (206 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Proposed OBS rename / + BRETZN name
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 3:46 AM, Helen <postmodernhousewife@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I personally have mixed feelings about this - the fact that OBS has
openSUSE in its name helps to get the openSUSE name 'out there' as its
use becomes more popular, but I agree that there is a strong
implication for users that it is only for openSUSE. The other reasons
raised by Gumb are also valid ones.

OBS is the beating heart of openSUSE, I don't see any problem in
having 'openSUSE' on a platform as OBS.

What is being propused is called 'repositioning', this is one of the
hardest and most risky (if not the most risky at all) operation you
can do from a marketing perspective. No one takes lightly to change an
established brand name or service without a strong motive. None of the
motives seem strong enough, and the work should deployed in a
different way, but that not for me to decide.

I don't think that changing the name (specially when it has strong
roots in the industry already) will solve the problem around
attractivity to OBS. What can solve the attractive problem around OBS
is to increase exponentially (in a viral way) the number of users of
the openSUSE.

Lets imagine an hypothetical situation based on 'Facebook' numbers,
since I don't have metrics for the userbase of openSUSE and Ubuntu
(official channels):

Ubuntu: 328275 likes on facebook
openSUSE: 2779 likes on facebook

If I was a developer to launch an application, I would probably choose
launchad/ubuntu because I knew before hand that Ubuntu would enable a
higher potential user base for my application. This is simple common

In a very simple way we are in the content distribution world, we
distribute contents in the form of software. It's a service, it aims
for people, that's the very own minimum denominator here. So we should
actually look into a way of becoming more attractive to users and
investors, and a strategy for that can be delievering a higher number
of contents.

For example... Ubuntu plays this well... from a simple package, they
create like 7/8 sub-packages, then they have over 32K packages as they
advertise (look at a screenshot of their Software Center and how they
explore this concept to brutalize users perception). Users who have
done some packaging or developed something, they know this is a fairy
tale and a 'marketing move', but for those without tech skills, they
might believe it's the best choice due to the ammount of packages
available, eventhough the largest part of them are futile for end
users... And when they eventually might realize it, they have already
a loyalty bond with Ubuntu and won't swap.

I believe on this at least... without a strong user base, we might not
become attractive enough for developers to use OBS to distribute their
software, because our user base isn't large enough. Maybe what
developers love is probably that everyone picks their software and use
it? Maybe that's the missing link.

 So a change to just 'open' could be positive in many ways.

I'm still relatively new to the project myself, so I don't know the
whole story - I imagine this was probably discussed at length when the
Build Service first became an entity.

OBS is the 'nursery' of openSUSE Linux distribution.

On a related note, I was under the impression that Bretzn was being
renamed to 'AppInstaller' though perhaps I've got the "wrong end of
the stick" as the saying goes.

Good that 'Bretzn' is being renamed, because from a pure marketing
perspective, it's not the best of choices, since the
internationalizion of the word and the phonetics make a natural
barrier to use it in some languages. How can people speak about
something if they can't pronounce the word? OBS doesn't suffer from
this symptom.

Because we are going to be doing a lot of work in the coming months to
promote both the OBS and Bretzn, it might be a good idea to clarify
naming right away, and also perhaps talk about branding and logos for
both of these projects. Is there anything in progress towards
developing artwork?

Again, apologies if this is old territory being covered again!



On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:44 AM, gumb <gumb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi. I am forwarding a proposal for the renaming of the openSUSE Build
Service, in order to try and increase its adoption and recognition. Indeed,
it seems like certain moves may already have been made in this direction but
I'm not too clear on that (see below). This is a follow-up to a suggestion
by Jos Poortvliet which he originally made mention of in a recent blog post,

Whilst I am merely an end-user, he has suggested in the spirit of openness
that I contact the project via this list to further the discussion.
Essentially, such a renaming could be as 'simple' as calling it the 'Open
Build Service', and I note that the Meego project, for example, already
seems to use this on some of its webpages, but the main OBS introduction
page does not, hence my uncertainty. The reasoning behind this subtle change
is that the project has perhaps not gained the traction that it should have
done in the wider open source and distro community in consideration of what
an advanced and useful tool it is. I see there being two key contributory
factors behind this:

1) The very name openSUSE Build Service immediately implies something
related and perhaps specific to the openSUSE distribution. Many developers /
packagers are simply unaware of its scope.

2) There are those for whom anything associated with the name openSUSE makes
them run a mile. Rightfully or wrongfully, all the previous Novell / MS
associations forever tarnish the image of openSUSE for some. The OBS is
unfairly tarred with the same brush, and no matter how good a service it
becomes, this perception is unlikely to change for a long time to come.

Of course, general marketing and other factors may also play a part, but I
don't think the above two reasons should be easily discounted. Several times
I have read conversations involving developers / packagers who are
struggling to make packages available for a variety of distros, and when OBS
is raised as a potential solution the thread often falls flat or it is
dismissed, sometimes for some technical reason or sometimes for no good

To appease the latter category of OBS avoiders, the openSUSE branding could
perhaps take a back seat and not be so obviously featured. Let the service
speak for itself. The website would need some rewording and perhaps more
generic theming or image elements to reduce all the immediate references to
openSUSE. I'm basing this broadly on the concept that subtle or subconscious
persuasion can often triumph over blatant advertising, but I'm no marketing

Having openSUSE in the title should bring some prestige and publicity to the
openSUSE project, but it probably has just as much adverse effect. Far
better to attract more people to the service in the first instance, and upon
discovering its qualities a certain kudos might then be attributed before
the user needs to discover who's behind it.

The rewards and prestige would eventually come from the project generating
many times as much usage and therefore media recognition, instead of
shouting about itself and falling upon deaf ears, and ultimately occupying a

Not meaning to take anything away from the efforts so far. Having Meego and
others on board is a great achievement, but I think the points in Jos's post
are an indicator of the widespread ignorance that may be holding it back
from reaching out further.
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nelson marques
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