[yast-devel] Style Guide - Overview Dialog
Hi all! I have some bugreports from Martin about button labeling described in guideline: http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Style_Guide#Single_Configuration.2FOverview.2FEd... My question is about button ordering: Is that really suppose to be OK, Cancel order? Then it needs to be fixes in Wizard module (or show me how to implement that). Or the order is not important? If not, then screenshot/description should be fixed ... Bye, Michal -- Best Regards, Michal Zugec Software developer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SuSE CR, s.r.o. e-mail: mzugec@suse.cz Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 296 542 374 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
Michal Zugec wrote:
Hi all! I have some bugreports from Martin about button labeling described in guideline: http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Style_Guide#Single_Configuration.2FOverview.2FEd...
My question is about button ordering: Is that really suppose to be OK, Cancel order? Then it needs to be fixes in Wizard module (or show me how to implement that). Or the order is not important? If not, then screenshot/description should be fixed ...
Bye, Michal
Example of such bugreport: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=440521 The point of the bug are the labels, not the ordering. The confusing for me was fact, that ordering is not mentioned in styleguide at all. In this case example code is here: Wizard::SetContents(caption, contents, help, true, true); Wizard::SetNextButton(`next, Label::OKButton()); Wizard::SetAbortButton(`abort, Label::CancelButton()); Wizard::HideBackButton(); What about new function Wizard::SetStandaloneContents() ? Bye, Michal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
Hello, On Jan 13 09:09 Michal Zugec wrote (shortened):
I have some bugreports from Martin about button labeling described in guideline: http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Style_Guide#Single_Configuration.2FOverview.2FEd...
My question is about button ordering: Is that really suppose to be OK, Cancel order? Then it needs to be fixes in Wizard module (or show me how to implement that). Or the order is not important? If not, then screenshot/description should be fixed ...
...
Example of such bugreport: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=440521
The point of the bug are the labels, not the ordering. The confusing for me was fact, that ordering is not mentioned in styleguide at all.
In this case example code is here:
Wizard::SetContents(caption, contents, help, true, true); Wizard::SetNextButton(`next, Label::OKButton()); Wizard::SetAbortButton(`abort, Label::CancelButton()); Wizard::HideBackButton();
What about new function Wizard::SetStandaloneContents() ?
I already implemented Martin's wish in the printer and scanner module. But according to how I understand Martin's style guide there is no longer a button with abort functionality. Therefore I implemented Martin's wish different than your code above, see for an example https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=443684#c1 Wizard::SetContentsButtons ( caption, contents, HELPS["add_driver_dialog"]:"", // Set a new label for the "back" button: Label::CancelButton(), // Set a new label for the "next" button: Label::OKButton() ); Wizard::HideAbortButton(); See also my other mail here which was not sufficiently answered: http://lists.opensuse.org/yast-devel/2008-11/msg00040.html Kind Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany AG Nuernberg, HRB 16746, GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:22:02AM +0100, Johannes Meixner wrote:
In this case example code is here:
Wizard::SetContents(caption, contents, help, true, true); Wizard::SetNextButton(`next, Label::OKButton()); Wizard::SetAbortButton(`abort, Label::CancelButton()); Wizard::HideBackButton();
I already implemented Martin's wish in the printer and scanner module.
But according to how I understand Martin's style guide there is no longer a button with abort functionality.
Therefore I implemented Martin's wish different than your code above, see for an example https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=443684#c1
Wizard::SetContentsButtons ( caption, contents, HELPS["add_driver_dialog"]:"", // Set a new label for the "back" button: Label::CancelButton(), // Set a new label for the "next" button: Label::OKButton() ); Wizard::HideAbortButton();
I assume that this looks the same, but the consequence is that "Cancel" gets the F8 key like Back (wrong) and not F9 like Abort (right): http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Style_Guide#Function_keys_.28F_keys.29 -- Martin Vidner, YaST developer http://en.opensuse.org/User:Mvidner Kuracke oddeleni v restauraci je jako fekalni oddeleni v bazenu -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
Michal Zugec wrote:
Michal Zugec wrote:
Hi all! I have some bugreports from Martin about button labeling described in guideline: http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Style_Guide#Single_Configuration.2FOverview.2FEd...
My question is about button ordering: Is that really suppose to be OK, Cancel order? Then it needs to be fixes in Wizard module (or show me how to implement that). Or the order is not important? If not, then screenshot/description should be fixed ...
No, the order is wrong (at least for the Qt and ncurses). It should be obviously [Cancel] [OK] as [Cancel] is the replacement for [Abort] button.
Example of such bugreport: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=440521
The point of the bug are the labels, not the ordering. The confusing for me was fact, that ordering is not mentioned in styleguide at all.
The styleguide is Wiki.
In this case example code is here:
Wizard::SetContents(caption, contents, help, true, true); Wizard::SetNextButton(`next, Label::OKButton()); Wizard::SetAbortButton(`abort, Label::CancelButton()); Wizard::HideBackButton();
What about new function Wizard::SetStandaloneContents() ?
What about Wizard::OpenCancelOKDialog() ? L.
Hello, On Jan 13 10:29 Martin Vidner wrote (shortened):
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:22:02AM +0100, Johannes Meixner wrote:
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=443684#c1
Wizard::SetContentsButtons ( caption, contents, HELPS["add_driver_dialog"]:"", // Set a new label for the "back" button: Label::CancelButton(), // Set a new label for the "next" button: Label::OKButton() ); Wizard::HideAbortButton();
I assume that this looks the same, but the consequence is that "Cancel" gets the F8 key like Back (wrong) and not F9 like Abort (right): http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Style_Guide#Function_keys_.28F_keys.29
Great! What a mess! What an incredible mess! When I implemented Martin's wish, the style guide reads different! When I implemented Martin's wish, the style guide did read: "Cancel - Closes the window and returns to the overview." But now it suddenly reads: "Cancel - If the user presses Cancel the module is closed." Who the hell changed the style guide in an incompatible way! I cannot work this way! I will not change my code again! I will not implement a "refernce" module because it is totally useless at all when the style guide changes all the time! I am totally finished with this style guide nonsense and I will simply ignore style guides in the future. Kind Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany AG Nuernberg, HRB 16746, GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
Johannes Meixner wrote:
When I implemented Martin's wish, the style guide reads different! When I implemented Martin's wish, the style guide did read: "Cancel - Closes the window and returns to the overview." But now it suddenly reads: "Cancel - If the user presses Cancel the module is closed."
Who the hell changed the style guide in an incompatible way! I cannot work this way! I will not change my code again! I will not implement a "refernce" module because it is totally useless at all when the style guide changes all the time!
Mschmidkunz, 11:54, 28 November 2008 See http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=YaST%2FStyle_Guide&diff=80310&oldid=79765 L.
Hi all! Sorry for joining the discussion that late but I am in the office only on Thursday and Friday so it takes some time for me to get along with my stuff. Button ordering: Button order is very important, the point why it is not mentioned explicitly in the style guide is, that no matter which button order we choose (Cancel/OK, OK/Cancel) it would potentially conflict with one of the two major desktops as KDE and GNOME have a different button order. HuHa made a really nice piece of work with the button box: http://lizards.opensuse.org/2008/08/28/button-order-in-yast-trying-to-make-p... But AFAIK there was little response in implementing it into the modules and it is currently only used in the pop up library. That is also one point why I am so fond of having YaST module templates because in that way a lot of issues could be avoided (visble Back button in overview dialogs, button order, button labeling,...) Meaning of "Cancel": I am quite surprised that this issue raises so much confusion. I suppose that it is also because I do not have an engineering background and maybe therefore I used words and concepts in a way that is unusual to someone with engineering background. So here is what I had in mind with this issue: * I oppose the label "Abort" as it has also a medical connotation and is not commonly used in desktop GUIS (e.g. GNOME, KDE, MS Windows). So I think, it is a good idea to label the "Abort"-button with "Cancel" (the benefits would be consistency with desktops, user expectations,...) So the "Abort" button keeps all his functionality (e.g. F9-key binding) but not his label. * Having an activated "Back" button and an activated "Cancel" button in an one screen dialog (e.g. overview) does not make any sense because the visible consequences of the buttons are the same: I click on the button, the module disappears and no changes are preserved. Secondly why should I have a "Back" button when there is no next screen I can go to? So these were my motives for having these issues put into the style guide and writing bug reports about them. Please let me know, where you find some contradictions with your point of view. Concerning changes in the style guide: The text line: "Cancel - Closes the module and returns to the overview" was modified by me, Johannes. I did that in agreement with you as a result of your comment, that when having an opening a module and the user presses "Cancel" there is no overview the user can return to. This is the only difference I can get between the two meanings of "Cancel". As it is the first attempt for a complete style guide (the one before was mainly dealing with text issues) it is naturally that in the beginning there might be some issues which need adjustments. Please keep in mind, that the style guide is not just something to annoy everybody just for fun but to increase the consistency and usability of YaST. Cu, Martin PS: @Martin Vidner: Cool slogan in your email signature :-) -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
Hello, On Jan 16 12:48 Martin Schmidkunz wrote (shortened):
* Having an activated "Back" button and an activated "Cancel" button in an one screen dialog (e.g. overview) does not make any sense because the visible consequences of the buttons are the same: I click on the button, the module disappears and no changes are preserved. Secondly why should I have a "Back" button when there is no next screen I can go to?
It seems you mix up the special case "overview dialog" with any other "one screen dialog". The "overview dialog" has the meaning to be the very first dialog. Therefore in the special case of the very first dialog there exists nothing whereto go back in the workflow so that for the special case of the very first dialog a button with back functionality and a button with abort functionality have the same effect which is: Leave the whole module. In contrast any other "one screen dialog" could be nested somewhere deep in the workflow structure of the module where it makes a big difference if there is a button with back functionality which goes back in the workflow to a point which makes sense in the particular case (usually the "overview dialog" but it could be any other dialog) compared to a button which has abort functionality so that the whole module is closed.
The text line: "Cancel - Closes the module and returns to the overview" was modified by me, Johannes. I did that in agreement with you as a result of your comment, that when having an opening a module and the user presses "Cancel" there is no overview the user can return to.
There is a misunderstanding. I think it would help to fix the confusion to make a strict difference between the very first dialog and any other "one screen dialog". Note that the "overview dialog" is the very first dialog only after the module was started but not after the user came back to the "overview dialog" when finishing a particular part of the workflow - i.e. when he did: "overview dialog" -> "one screen dialog" -> "overview dialog" The old version "Cancel - Closes the window and returns to the overview." works well because the meaning is a back functionality and it does not matter very much when there is no longer an abort functionality because from anywhere in the module [Cancel] -> [Cancel] -> [Cancel] -> [Cancel] -> [Cancel] -> ... would eventually leave the module (without having any settings applied in the system). In contrast the new version "Cancel - If the user presses Cancel the module is closed." does not work well because the meaning is an immediate abort functionality of the whole module. But there is no button which provides a back functionality. Therefore when the user selected wrong stuff anywhere in the module there is nothing except the abort functionality of the whole module where he can only discard all his changes. I.e. there is no longer a functionality to get out only from a current part of the workflow (e.g. get out only from one "one screen dialog") and discard only the changes of this current part (i.e. there is no longer a back functionality). Kind Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany AG Nuernberg, HRB 16746, GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
In this case example code is here:
Wizard::SetContents(caption, contents, help, true, true); Wizard::SetNextButton(`next, Label::OKButton()); Wizard::SetAbortButton(`abort, Label::CancelButton()); Wizard::HideBackButton();
What about new function Wizard::SetStandaloneContents() ?
What about Wizard::OpenCancelOKDialog() ?
L.
Done in yast2-2.18.2 (new function Wizard::OpenCancelOKDialog()) M. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Johannes Meixner -
Lukas Ocilka -
Martin Schmidkunz -
Martin Vidner -
Michal Zugec