[yast-devel] buttons buttons buttons
Hi, when testing openSUSE 11.1/SLES 11 I came across a rather curious situation: many modules have already switched their label from Abort/OK(Accept, Finish...) to the style guide compliant Cancel/OK label. However in every case there is a third, inactive "Back" button included. This doesn't make sense as there is nothing to go back and the dialog is just an overview. I suppose this is due to many of you using wizard.ycp as base template for creating your module. What do you think about using the button box (http://lizards.opensuse.org/2008/08/28/button-order-in-yast-trying-to-make-p...) instead of the buttons of wizard.ycp? In my opinion this would have the following advantages: * consistent button order in pop ups and in the module * user would not need to deal with an inactive button * button order in YaST would be consistent with the desktop used by the user What do you think about that issue? Cu, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
Martin Schmidkunz wrote:
Hi,
when testing openSUSE 11.1/SLES 11 I came across a rather curious situation: many modules have already switched their label from Abort/OK(Accept, Finish...) to the style guide compliant Cancel/OK label. However in every case there is a third, inactive "Back" button included. This doesn't make sense as there is nothing to go back and the dialog is just an overview. I suppose this is due to many of you using wizard.ycp as base template for creating your module.
What do you think about using the button box (http://lizards.opensuse.org/2008/08/28/button-order-in-yast-trying-to-make-p...) instead of the buttons of wizard.ycp?
In my opinion this would have the following advantages: * consistent button order in pop ups and in the module * user would not need to deal with an inactive button * button order in YaST would be consistent with the desktop used by the user
What do you think about that issue?
In my opinion, having a [Back] button disabled is the way to go if we are anywhere in installation and the dialog is full-screen. Keeping the [Back] button there (even if disabled) makes all the dialogs unified in having all the buttons with the same functionality on the very same places all over the installation. I remember we were talking about this before. L.
Lukas Ocilka wrote:
Keeping the [Back] button there (even if disabled) makes all the dialogs unified in having all the buttons with the same functionality on the very same places all over the installation.
True for installation but when working on an installed system the back button is plain unnecessary.
I remember we were talking about this before.
Yes, and the agreement was an OK/Cancel button http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Style_Guide#Single_Configuration.2FOverview.2FEd... Cu, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
On Donnerstag, 23. Oktober 2008, Lukas Ocilka wrote:
In my opinion, having a [Back] button disabled is the way to go if we are anywhere in installation and the dialog is full-screen.
Keeping the [Back] button there (even if disabled) makes all the dialogs unified in having all the buttons with the same functionality on the very same places all over the installation. I remember we were talking about this before.
I don't quite understand this... What Martin wrote sounds like we have dialogs where we have wizard buttons ([Abort] [Back] [Next]) PLUS [OK] [Cancel] button in the same dialog. If that is the case, that's a clear violation of the intent and purpose of a wizard. That does not make any sense. If there is a wizard, the wizard buttons are to be used for navigation (positive confirmation - [Next], [OK], [Accept] or whatever; non-destructive negative way out: [Back] / [Cancel]). Please clarify. And a couple of screenshots would help. CU -- Stefan Hundhammer <sh@suse.de> Penguin by conviction. YaST2 Development SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Nürnberg, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
Stefan Hundhammer wrote:
What Martin wrote sounds like we have dialogs where we have wizard buttons ([Abort] [Back] [Next]) PLUS [OK] [Cancel] button in the same dialog.
No, that was not what I meant. Most of the YaST dialogs show the buttons [OK] [Back] [Cancel] OK/Cancel are active, Back is disabled. See: http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Back_button_disabled.png I think, that in the mail I wrote yesterday I forgot to point out, that I am really, really glad that many modules have the OK/Cancel combination. Thanks for that! The point which irritated me were the inactive [Back] buttons, which didn't make sense to me and which are (according to my understanding) unnecessary. As OK/Cancel are the only necessary buttons the next question which came into my mind: hey, there is this button box widget, which is used in pop up dialogs but not in overview/edit dialogs. Why is that so? As I couldn't get answers from some YaST developers in Nuremberg I decided to ask you that question on the mailing list.
From a usability point of view the button box bears many advantages and using a button box in pop ups and not in dialogs bears some inconsistency dangers. So I think that this is a matter to be discussed with you :-)
Have fun, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
On Samstag, 29. September 2007, Martin Schmidkunz wrote:
Stefan Hundhammer wrote:
What Martin wrote sounds like we have dialogs where we have wizard buttons ([Abort] [Back] [Next]) PLUS [OK] [Cancel] button in the same dialog.
No, that was not what I meant. Most of the YaST dialogs show the buttons [OK] [Back] [Cancel] OK/Cancel are active, Back is disabled. See: http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Back_button_disabled.png
OK, so it's not quite as bad as I had imagined. I agree that this [Back] button is out of place there. It's just confusing; it does not add any value for the user. IIRC the wizard documentation explains that there are different types of wizard dialogs: [Back] [Abort] [Next] (we changed that button order in the meantime) or [Cancel] [Accept] or [OK] [Cancel] What we intentionally never even suggested was this [Cancel] [Back] [OK] Not only is it unclear what [Back] might do here (there is no [Next], so why have [Back]?), it's also the wrong button order. That was one reason for preferring [Accept] in those dialogs; that's very similar to [Finish], but that one always gets mistranslated to German ("Beenden")). Still, it is located in the bottom right corner like [Next]. [OK] on the other hand should _not_ be in the bottom right corner in our default (KDE-like) button order. So the compromise to get rid of [Accept] and always use [OK] introduced a new problem. Still, throwing in some [Back] buttons for good measure doesn't exactly improve this. This is all very inconsistent. We should use the models above, not introduce new ones that are more confusing. CU -- Stefan Hundhammer <sh@suse.de> Penguin by conviction. YaST2 Development SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Nürnberg, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
Sorry, but due to time stamp problems on my PC I am resending my email from a few minutes ago to ensure that it appears in your mailbox in chronological order. Thanks Lukas for reminding me :-) Stefan Hundhammer wrote:
What Martin wrote sounds like we have dialogs where we have wizard buttons ([Abort] [Back] [Next]) PLUS [OK] [Cancel] button in the same dialog.
No, that was not what I meant. Most of the YaST dialogs show the buttons [OK] [Back] [Cancel] OK/Cancel are active, Back is disabled. See: http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Back_button_disabled.png I think, that in the mail I wrote yesterday I forgot to point out, that I am really, really glad that many modules have the OK/Cancel combination. Thanks for that! The point which irritated me were the inactive [Back] buttons, which didn't make sense to me and which are (according to my understanding) unnecessary. As OK/Cancel are the only necessary buttons the next question which came into my mind: hey, there is this button box widget, which is used in pop up dialogs but not in overview/edit dialogs. Why is that so? As I couldn't get answers from some YaST developers in Nuremberg I decided to ask you that question on the mailing list.
From a usability point of view the button box bears many advantages and using a button box in pop ups and not in dialogs bears some inconsistency dangers. So I think that this is a matter to be discussed with you :-)
Have fun, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: yast-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: yast-devel+help@opensuse.org
participants (3)
-
Lukas Ocilka -
Martin Schmidkunz -
Stefan Hundhammer