Looking on openSUSE wiki, and Wikipedia. One with login, the other without.
They had login too and the site was small. Then they removed login, and site started growing to its present size.
How many people will go trough registration process, just to make minor edit? I think just a few.
I edited Wikipedia few times, with login requirement it would be no edit at all.
So, what is what we want?
Protected site or active one?
Fear from vandals? Wikipedia has same problems, and obviously some solutions. We can have some pages protected, some accessible with login and the rest free.
On Friday 03 February 2006 19:40, Rajko M wrote:
Looking on openSUSE wiki, and Wikipedia. One with login, the other without.
They had login too and the site was small. Then they removed login, and site started growing to its present size.
How many people will go trough registration process, just to make minor edit? I think just a few.
I edited Wikipedia few times, with login requirement it would be no edit at all.
So, what is what we want?
Protected site or active one?
Fear from vandals? Wikipedia has same problems, and obviously some solutions. We can have some pages protected, some accessible with login and the rest free.
Whats so hard about registering?
If you want to make more than a quick edit, you'd register... I don't see an issue here personally.
Joseph M. Gaffney aka CuCullin
Joseph M. Gaffney wrote:
On Friday 03 February 2006 19:40, Rajko M wrote:
Looking on openSUSE wiki, and Wikipedia. One with login, the other without.
They had login too and the site was small. Then they removed login, and site started growing to its present size.
How many people will go trough registration process, just to make minor edit? I think just a few.
I edited Wikipedia few times, with login requirement it would be no edit at all.
So, what is what we want?
Protected site or active one?
Fear from vandals? Wikipedia has same problems, and obviously some solutions. We can have some pages protected, some accessible with login and the rest free.
Whats so hard about registering?
If you want to make more than a quick edit, you'd register... I don't see an issue here personally.
Hi Joseph,
the hard fact is that the most successful wiki site Wikipedia does not require it, so people are used to idea that anybody can edit information without registering and logging.
The problem is that on HCL page http://en.opensuse.org/HCL/Desktops I call people to add their experience, but even if I would undertake actual tasks of input and information sorting, I have no single page where anybody can leave his experience without registering and logging.
I see few hits and I can imagine people disappointed with empty pages going away. That there is no vandals doesn't help much, as there is no users too.
Again, Wikipedia was closed behind login too, and result was disappointment. When they removed that as requirement, free encyclopedia started to grow. Their experience show that vandals of any kind are not that big concern as closed wiki.
On 02/04/2006 08:21 AM Rajko M wrote:
Their experience show that vandals of any kind are not that big concern as closed wiki.
You have read the articles in the last few weeks, saying who rewrote articles in wikipedia (us government people did), who wrote a fake story about a journalist, ...
AFAIK the went back to registration now, as they had these problems recently.
OJ
Johannes Kastl wrote:
On 02/04/2006 08:21 AM Rajko M wrote:
Their experience show that vandals of any kind are not that big concern as closed wiki.
You have read the articles in the last few weeks, saying who rewrote articles in wikipedia (us government people did), who wrote a fake story about a journalist, ...
AFAIK the went back to registration now, as they had these problems recently.
OJ
I don't see how registration can prevent such things, done by individuals
even the robots know how to do registration :-(
the problem is not there jdd
On 02/07/2006 08:53 AM jdd wrote:
I don't see how registration can prevent such things, done by individuals
All I wanted to say was that wikipedia has its problems, too, so dont just copy everything they do cos its wikipedia.
With the registration (or whatever they have now) the want to be able to track the changes better, and prevent anonymous guys from posting. AFAIK.
OJ
On Tuesday 07 February 2006 01:23, Johannes Kastl wrote:
On 02/04/2006 08:21 AM Rajko M wrote:
Their experience show that vandals of any kind are not that big concern as closed wiki.
You have read the articles in the last few weeks, saying who rewrote articles in wikipedia (us government people did), who wrote a fake story about a journalist, ...
AFAIK the went back to registration now, as they had these problems recently.
OJ
Thanks. My memories to Wikipedia seems to be dusty :-)
On 2/4/06, Rajko M rmatov101@charter.net wrote:
the hard fact is that the most successful wiki site Wikipedia does not require it, so people are used to idea that anybody can edit information without registering and logging.
I would challenge the statement that people in general are used to the idea of changing the content of web sites they visit, let alone being able to do it without registering.
The problem is that on HCL page http://en.opensuse.org/HCL/Desktops I call people to add their experience, but even if I would undertake actual tasks of input and information sorting, I have no single page where anybody can leave his experience without registering and logging.
As the creator of the HCL section on the wiki, I started with laptops and it grew with the demand of different devices. I think the issue you have encountered is that, there is not so much demand for hardware compatibility of complete desktop systems. I personally think this is because: 1. Most hardware is well supported, (if it works you don't need an HCL) 2. Most Linux users are using white boxes and not branded desktop systems.
Their experience show that vandals of any kind are not that big concern as closed wiki.
You have not convinced me that: 1. We have a real issue with contribution 2. It would be in any way solved by allowing anonymous editing.
Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin ps. Because the server is hosted by Novell, they are accepting certain liabilities with content that is hosted. They try to pass this liability on to the submitter, but this is difficult if users are not registered, so I doubt that the policy would change even if we wanted it to.
I'm surprised this is still a subject of discussion...
On Tuesday 07 February 2006 04:23, Peter Flodin wrote:
You have not convinced me that:
- We have a real issue with contribution
- It would be in any way solved by allowing anonymous editing.
1) I don't believe so myself. I have a few hundred contributions, and I haven't even had the time to add more info lately. Theres an incredible number of contributors out there, and many, if not nearly all, of the most common questions are solved by a visit to the wiki.
2) Wikipedia (as was mentioned), has a half-protected system. Anonymous users can make edits, but only to some pages. They can start new pages, rename pages, upload images, edit semi-protected and protected pages, or make an edit be considered minor.
Wikipedia also needs a massive number more articles than any other site by its nature. In short, I think allowing anonymous access does pretty much nothing.
Joseph M. Gaffney aka CuCullin
PS: Sorry if there was a bounce to the list everyone.... I managed to allow my domain to expire by accident... just renewed for 5 years, so I think its safe to say it'll be up for a while ;)
On Tuesday 07 February 2006 03:23, Peter Flodin wrote:
On 2/4/06, Rajko M rmatov101@charter.net wrote:
the hard fact is that the most successful wiki site Wikipedia does not require it, so people are used to idea that anybody can edit information without registering and logging.
I would challenge the statement that people in general are used to the idea of changing the content of web sites they visit, let alone being able to do it without registering.
I've got in mind Wikipedia visitors that discovered that they can edit the site, not any web surfer, as many of them are really not aware that it is possible.
The problem is that on HCL page http://en.opensuse.org/HCL/Desktops I call people to add their experience, but even if I would undertake actual tasks of input and information sorting, I have no single page where anybody can leave his experience without registering and logging.
As the creator of the HCL section on the wiki, I started with laptops and it grew with the demand of different devices. I think the issue you have encountered is that, there is not so much demand for hardware compatibility of complete desktop systems. I personally think this is because:
- Most hardware is well supported, (if it works you don't need an HCL)
I need HCL before I buy computer. After it is bought I need patches, tips and tricks, support database etc. It is too late for HCL :-)
- Most Linux users are using white boxes and not branded desktop systems.
Most of Linux users that use white boxes don't need basic advice either, and that is openSUSE right now. Most of newbees do need and actually need badly information how to start. Even very simple tasks are hard to figure out for one that just came from windows.
This came in mind, do we have troubleshooting guide?
Their experience show that vandals of any kind are not that big concern as closed wiki.
Changed mind. Sophisticated vandals are big problem.
You have not convinced me that:
- We have a real issue with contribution
- It would be in any way solved by allowing anonymous editing.
I'm convinced now that anonymous editing would be a bad idea. I just need some communication media that will allow users to tell what they think. ( besides my own mailbox :-)
Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin ps. Because the server is hosted by Novell, they are accepting certain liabilities with content that is hosted. They try to pass this liability on to the submitter, but this is difficult if users are not registered, so I doubt that the policy would change even if we wanted it to.
The disclaimers are there to remove liability, but I'm not sure that they work in all possible cases.
Hello,
Am Mittwoch, 8. Februar 2006 20:03 schrieb Rajko M.:
This came in mind, do we have troubleshooting guide?
If I get it right: Yes, it's called SDB ;-) and now integrated in the wiki.
Regards,
Christian Boltz
On Wednesday 08 February 2006 04:59, Christian Boltz wrote:
Hello,
Am Mittwoch, 8. Februar 2006 20:03 schrieb Rajko M.:
This came in mind, do we have troubleshooting guide?
If I get it right: Yes, it's called SDB ;-) and now integrated in the wiki.
Hi Christian,
The troubleshooting guide is collection of procedures that help to find what is the problem, than comes SDB with solution :-)
-
Christian Boltz -
jdd -
Johannes Kastl -
Joseph M. Gaffney -
Peter Flodin -
Rajko M -
Rajko M.