Lars Vogdt wrote:

Hi

Last2kn0 asks me to come up with my problem here on this list. So here I am.... ;-)

Trying to summarize the background:

The Education Team wants to categorize their applications into subcategories to get the following advantages:

* Reduce the size of http://en.opensuse.org/Education/Applications/Desktop in the end we hopefully can create a portal like wiki page linking to the different sub-categories.

* Use the same Categories as the freedesktop.org Standard suggests. So users who find an application (for example) in his Education -> Art desktop menu, can find the same application - and even more - in the corresponding wiki category ([[Category:Education Art]] in this example).

In the result we will get around 17-20 new Subcategories. As Last2kn0 told me, this will not match with the current goal of the wiki team to reduce the categories.

Second problem: As nearly every application can be used in an educational background, this needs adaptations to the current package descriptions in the wiki. We need to add the corresponding education category to applications like (for example) Audacity. As you can see: http://en.opensuse.org/Audacity will at least have one additional Category in the bottom of the page: "Education Art". Perhaps we can remove the "Education Applications" Category in the end - but this is currently no option for us.

The main parts of the discussion can be found here: http://en.opensuse.org/User_talk:Last2kn0 and here: http://en.opensuse.org/User_talk:Lrupp

As the education team wants to release the first version for openSUSE 10.3 in a few weeks, it would be fine if I can get a "final" decision from the wiki team if we can go on with our work or not.

Regards, Lars --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

As a recap, I did not tell you that you could not have subcategories. Instead I suggested that you put your subcategories under your Education_Applications category. Wouldn't it make sense to have subcategories under their parent category as they are *sub*categories. So what I meant was categorize your Education_Art Category as Education and not as Applications. This would make more sense anyways in relating to how your menu structure is according to freedesktop. In a menu you go to Education, then art. So in the wiki, you go to the education category then inside this category you go to education art category. Education and education art should not be in the same menu level. This does fit into the category hierarchy if you make that simple change. To your second problem: Possibly under education you could make a category called opensuse-education-apps or something. This could contain all apps that are considered within the opensuse education project. Hopefully once the opensuse wiki portal gets running we can make a portal to accommodate your needs. This will be a better solution than categories. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Lars Vogdt wrote:

Hi Josh

On Do 24 Apr 2008 17:12:07 CEST Josh wrote:

...

As a recap, I did not tell you that you could not have subcategories. Instead I suggested that you put your subcategories under your Education_Applications category. Wouldn't it make sense to have subcategories under their parent category as they are *sub*categories. So what I meant was categorize your Education_Art Category as Education and not as Applications.

Sorry, if I don't understand your suggest - looks like I've no idea of how to use the Categories in the wiki the best way. I'll trying to understand it in an example:

First off, let me open with an analogy. Please, lets look at our categories like folders on your harddrive. So all our categories make up our filesystem. Lets say you have a folder with all of your Education applications in it. So this folder is called ~/Edu-Apps. Inside this folder you categorize by the types of education applications. You have art edu, sound edu, wiki edu. So this means you have ~/Edu-Apps/edu-art, ~/Edu-Apps/edu-sound, ~/Edu-Apps/edu-wiki. You wouldn't put edu-wiki applications in the ~/Edu-Apps/edu-wiki directory AND the ~/Edu-Apps directory. This would make no sense. So its not a good idea to have page in a subcategory and its parent category. It is okay to have a page in more than one category if they are not parents of each other. This is like having a symlink in your filesystem. So you have /usr/bin/edu/edu-wiki/. You can just put symlinks to all your edu-wiki apps there. I have attached a zip (forgive me mailinglist gods), that demonstrates the basic idea. The first directory is our Applications category. Inside I demonstrate how you should have your categories and pages. Applications Education_Applications Education_Art Edu-art pages Education_Sound Edu-sound pages To accomplish this, you just categorize edu-sound pages as Education_sound. Then the education sound is categorized as Education_applications. Then Education_Applications is categorized as Applications. What not to do: Categorize Edu-sound pages as Applications or Education_Applications. Categorize Education_Art as Applications etc What you can do: Add any of the Education_* categories or pages to another category that is not their grandparent.

First one "infinitely", second one until we've marked all applications the right way, so we can create a new "Education_Applications" page showing all "Education_*" Categories. Teachers using Audacity and searching for similar apps can click on the "Education_Art" Link in Audacity and get a list of those apps (if they didn't find any useful in the "See also"-paragraph).

If you use the method I described, the Category:Education_Applications page will show all Education_* categories.

...

This would make more sense anyways in relating to how your menu structure is according to freedesktop. In a menu you go to Education, then art. So in the wiki, you go to the education category then inside this category you go to education art category. Education and education art should not be in the same menu level. This does fit into the category hierarchy if you make that simple change.

So back again to my example - hopefully I understand it now: Audacity -> [[Category:Art]]

Category:Education -> lists [[Category:Art]] ?

Category:Art -> lists other Art specific software. So a teacher has to decide for himself if a package listed in this Category can be useful for education or not. He has to search the whole "Category Art" to find apps he can use in his enviroment.

No, Audacity doesn't belong in art in this case. We want an Education_Art category.

So in the end: I could life with adding only: [[Category:Education_Art]] (or a similar tag) to each software description and create a page listing the Categories starting with "Education_". The new page will obsolete the second Category Tag "Education_Application". But I currently don't agree living just with the "normal" [[Category:Art]] tag in a package description.

Like I said above, you do not need to create a page. The Category:Education_Applications page will already do this automatically. And again, we aren't using Category:Art, we would use Category:Education_Art.

Again: Wikipedia has thousends of categories. Each wikipedia page has a lot of categories in the footer and the people using wikipedia don't look to be bothered by the huge category links. ...and I'm just asking for adding one additional category to each application description...

Yes multiple categories are fine within our hierarchy as long as you dont have things categorized in a subcategory and also that subcategories parent. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ