Hello, On Feb 6 16:18 Stanislav Visnovsky wrote (shortened):

Add Driver dialog: http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_mschmidkunz_rc2_driverwizard.png

Whouldn't Local PPD vs. Download PPD vs. Shipped drivers. Should they be kind of mutually exclusive?

Yes, they are mutually exclusive. Kind Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany AG Nuernberg, HRB 16746, GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 06 February 2008 08:52:10 am Martin Schmidkunz wrote:

Hi everybody,

a quite wise CUPS expert once said "exchange dungeons by trees" and that was an inspiration for me to take your feedback and make another series of mock ups: http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Development/Printer_Enhancement#Release_Candida te_2

What do you think about it?

The first feedbacks revealed a great sense of confusion about the amount and design of information presented in the overview. Thats why the space acquired by help was used for an overview. (Help as such will not be dropped it will move to a button within the navigation area :-)) One thought was to hide "print via network", "sharing" and "CUPS autoconfig" under a "Settings" category, but this idea was dropped as the word "Settings" as such is quite meaningless.

We also exchange "Remote Access" with "Share Printers" as this might be easier to understand.

I am looking forward to your comments,

Martin

Hi Martin, This proposal looks promising. <comments>------------------------------------------------------------ http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_mschmidkunz_rc2_overview_all.png * Left pane: Maybe singular 'Printer configuration' is better than 'Printer configurations', The same for 'Share printer' Print Via Network ? Any need for this with overview showing all printers? * What will do [Set filter]? Select what is presented? Than start (default value) can be [All_Printers] which tells that current selection is to see all printers. * What the wrench means? The one that can be configured or the one that has to be configured? * Column 'Status' Thick means: Configured, Available, Ready (for printing) ? X means: Not [Configured, Available, Ready (for printing)] ? IMHO, text will tell more than graphic that needs another table to map symbols to its meaning. It reminds me on one culture that used icons (hieroglyph) too much. * Overall: Now I have list of printers, I can Add more to the list, Edit configuration of existing printers, Delete - Remove printers, select what printers will be displayed in the list. How do I select what printer I want to use? Some remote can be on the other side of the building. In this way Add and Edit will replace right pane with configuration options for selected printer and button [Back to List] instead of [Next] will bring list of printers. BTW, I would use word 'printer' to mark whole set consisting of 'queue and device', and when necessary to avoid ambiguity use 'printer queue' or 'printing device'. Otherwise we will end in a land of pain writing many times explanation to new users that 'printing queue' is the same as 'printer' in this setup. What should be added to this is ability to mark printer as shared, and option to let CUPS select best values and configure printer. Both can be placed in 2 columns with checkmark for 'yes' and empty cell for 'no'. I guess that Share needs additional screen to set who can use printer. This will allow admin to set that only guys from Shipping can use the printer, but not from Receiving. http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_mschmidkunz_rc2_overview_remote.png * [Set filter] should be now on [Network Printers] or [Remote Printers]. http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_mschmidkunz_rc2_printvianetwork.png This one got me :-) I can't get it. What is CUPS Browsing? What is remote CUPS server? How do I print via server? What is ... How do I set up printer that is connected to another computer? Hey, young man, this is CUPS, it is not a window. http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_mschmidkunz_rc2_overview_sharing.png As with one above I can't say what part of printer setup flow this represents. Why I need interfaces and networks? If I say that I want to use XYZ printer in overview, than interface doesn't matter, it should be defined as well as network. Maybe I don't understand for what use case it is needed to limit access depending on network interface or network where computer is located. For administrators would be far easier to tell which group of users can use printer, without thinking where they are located in network, but knowing only physical location of printer. Wording: 'Allow Remote Access for Local Network' is that mean remote access from outside? 'Only computers on local network can use this printer' is probably easier to understand. </comments>---------------------------------------------------------------- It seems that setup workflow is not clearly defined, or better to say I don't understand what workflow is served with current UI proposal. We should probably try to start from list of printers http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_mschmidkunz_rc2_overview_all.png add few columns that will express administrator wishes, like allow or deny access to users and groups, networks and interfaces, creating groups of printers, and do the same allow/deny for them, than it will be possible to see how to do each of operations add, edit, remove, access control, grouping (anything else?). -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org

Hi,

...

BTW: when a user selects one of the shipped drivers: wouldn't that mean that they disappear from the box? Somehow it must be shown which of the driver packages is already installed and which one can be installed.

I would like to replace the check box with a check mark. If a user uninstalls the package (via software management) the check mark turn into a check box again. See: http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_mschmidkunz_rc2_driverwizard_selected.p...

By the way:

There is one entry missing: "filters: makeshift drivers for some awkward printers"

Mhm. Awkward printers... I think we should use: "filters: makeshift drivers for printers from HP, Lexmark, Canon, Citizen, and Apple" :-) (Source: package description of "filters") See: http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_mschmidkunz_rc2_driverwizard.png

For background information regarding "GDI printers", see http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:GDI_Printers

Thanks! Best regards, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org

Hi Rajko! Wow! First of all, thanks for the long feedback!

This proposal looks promising.

Thanks! I am also very happy about it!

* Left pane: Maybe singular 'Printer configuration' is better than 'Printer configurations',

"Printer Configuration" can be misleadingly regarded as an "Configure a Printer" dialog. "Printer Configurations" gives the user more the feeling that it is about more printers and a general overview.

The same for 'Share printer'

Again, this was done on purpose because these are general sharing settings which affects all queues. The sharing settings for each queue is done via the edit dialog.

Print Via Network ? Any need for this with overview showing all printers?

Japp. This is very vital because we want to prevent a user who only uses printers in the network to go and add a queue on his own.

* What will do [Set filter]? Select what is presented? Than start (default value) can be [All_Printers] which tells that current selection is to see all printers.

Yes, the default value will be: show all. "Set filter" is put in that way because this allows people to use key short cuts to filter things (see: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=279959)

* What the wrench means? The one that can be configured or the one that has to be configured?

It is a placeholder which shows the user, that he can potentially edit a queue. But if you have any other suggestions which icon to use, please let me know.

* Column 'Status' Thick means: Configured, Available, Ready (for printing) ? X means: Not [Configured, Available, Ready (for printing)] ? IMHO, text will tell more than graphic that needs another table to map symbols to its meaning. It reminds me on one culture that used icons (hieroglyph) too much.

This has nothing to do with configured or unconfigured. checkmark means: accepting print jobs and printing enabled x means: either one of the two conditions or both are not in place. Text was also the first idea we had, but it was too long and it required horizontal scrolling which is really, really nasty. So we decided to use icons. I am not sure, whether the was the way, icons made it into high culture but AFAIK this culture still fascinates many people. Maybe this would also happen to the people using the printer module :-)

* Overall: Now I have list of printers, I can Add more to the list, Edit configuration of existing printers, Delete - Remove printers, select what printers will be displayed in the list. How do I select what printer I want to use? Some remote can be on the other side of the building.

I am a little bit confused by that remark. As far as I understood the whole thing, the module makes sure that printers are available and you select it via print dialog of your application.

BTW, I would use word 'printer' to mark whole set consisting of 'queue and device', and when necessary to avoid ambiguity use 'printer queue' or 'printing device'. Otherwise we will end in a land of pain writing many times explanation to new users that 'printing queue' is the same as 'printer' in this setup.

Thats why we choose "printer configuration" as a synonym for "queue".

What should be added to this is ability to mark printer as shared,

Mhm. Nice idea. But as there is almost no space in the overview table left and there are potentially many sharing states (sharing with hosts, users, broadcasting yes/no, publishing yes/no) I fear that a simple "shared yes/no" entry won't provide that much information.

I guess that Share needs additional screen to set who can use printer.

This is done in: http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_mschmidkunz_printer_sharing.png

http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_mschmidkunz_rc2_overview_remote.png * [Set filter] should be now on [Network Printers] or [Remote Printers].

This is the price you pay for having short keys to filter things. Therefore the status of the filter is shown on the left. (all explained again in: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=279959)

http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_mschmidkunz_rc2_printvianetwork.png

This one got me :-) I can't get it.

What is CUPS Browsing? What is remote CUPS server? How do I print via server? What is ... How do I set up printer that is connected to another computer?

Hey, young man, this is CUPS, it is not a window.

:-) Home user who just have one local printer don't need this dialog. Other first time users will either have one specific address they got from someone. They will find a familiar input field in option two. This was also a quite tricky dialog to work on, because sys admins (or broader: people familiar with CUPS) need certain keywords. So we decided to describe the functionality by using expert keywords.

http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_mschmidkunz_rc2_overview_sharing.png As with one above I can't say what part of printer setup flow this represents. Why I need interfaces and networks?

Neither you nor me, but sys admins will be extremly happy, if they are able to granulate access settings.

Wording: 'Allow Remote Access for Local Network' is that mean remote access from outside? 'Only computers on local network can use this printer' is probably easier to understand.

I changed it to: "Allow Remote Access for Computers within the Local Network" I think it is confusing for the user when out of four options for the same thing one has an entirely different wording.

It seems that setup workflow is not clearly defined, or better to say I don't understand what workflow is served with current UI proposal.

http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Development/Printer_Enhancement#Workflow_2 will hopefully answer all your questions :-)

We should probably try to start from list of printers http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_mschmidkunz_rc2_overview_all.png

I would rather like to go on with this candidate. If we receive any complaints about it, it can still be modified. Cu, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org

Hi Klaus and all,

Better, waaay better ;-)

Thanks :-)

- I wonder about the menu on the left side. IIRC this was already discussed (and dismissed !) some time ago and a tab-style approach preferred. Other functions can be placed in an application menu bar placed horizontally at the top of the window.

I tried the application bar approach first and to be honest: it looked so bad, that I didn't even dare to send it around :-(

- How about combining the "Filter: Show All" label and the "Set Filter" combo-box into one ?

This solution has the possibility to include short cuts into the filter options. This would not be possible when using a combo box: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=279959

- The small tool icon is nice but probably information overflow. The "Local"/"Remote" column should be sufficient (together with disabling the "Edit" button for remote queues.

Mhm. Especially because the meaning of the tool icon is not instantly clear (Is the queue configured? Can I configure it?). It also pronounces the other icons (default, status) better. OK, changed.

- "Test Page" should be named "Print Test Page"

OK, changed.

- The "Status" column in unclear. Which information does it show ?

It shows the status of the print queue: check mark means: accepting print jobs and printing enabled x means: either one of the two conditions or both are not in place. Text was also the first idea we had, but it was too long and it required horizontal scrolling which is really, really nasty. So we decided to use icons. http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_mschmidkunz_rc2_modify_status.png

- The "Back"/"Abort"/"Next" button row should just have a single "Ok" (or "Done" or ...) button. There's no point in aborting the overview imho.

Navigation buttons in YaST are a long and big chapter, which also needs a lot of work. So I would like to discuss them at another time. Delayed but not to be forgotten! Have a nice evening, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org

Dňa Sunday 10 February 2008 18:33:56 Jiri Srain ste napísal:

Hi all!

Dne Thursday 07 of February 2008 16:52:19 Martin Schmidkunz napsal(a):

...

...

- The "Status" column in unclear. Which information does it show ?

It shows the status of the print queue: check mark means: accepting print jobs and printing enabled x means: either one of the two conditions or both are not in place. Text was also the first idea we had, but it was too long and it required horizontal scrolling which is really, really nasty. So we decided to use icons.

Hmm, what about to show text only if the queue is either disabled or does not accept jobs (and icon if enabled + accepting)? If one sees an 'x' icon, he has really no clue what it means unless we have tool tips. Since in most of the cases all queues are enabled and accepting jobs, it would show nasty scrollbar only in rare cases.

Just keep in mind that the new UI supports icons all over the place, so let's use this functionality! Stano -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org

Hi Jiri, hi all,

Hmm, what about to show text only if the queue is either disabled or does not accept jobs (and icon if enabled + accepting)? If one sees an 'x' icon, he has really no clue what it means unless we have tool tips. Since in most of the cases all queues are enabled and accepting jobs, it would show nasty scrollbar only in rare cases.

OK, having wording only in cases when the queue is not perfectly operational makes sense. It is much more obvious to the user what's the matter with the queue then having just an icon. I changed that in: http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Development/Printer_Enhancement#Overview_3 Cu, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org

* Martin Schmidkunz [Feb 11. 2008 12:12]:

OK, having wording only in cases when the queue is not perfectly operational makes sense. It is much more obvious to the user what's the matter with the queue then having just an icon. I changed that in: http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Development/Printer_Enhancement#Overview_3

Please don't mix icons with text information. Better find proper icons for the different states. Klaus --- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org

Klaus Kaempf wrote:

The book is called 'Sigi' ;-) :-)

Cu, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org

* Martin Schmidkunz [Feb 11. 2008 12:34]:

The designing problem is, that there are four different states: * enabled, rejecting * disabled, accepting * enabled, accepting * disabled, rejecting

So you 'just' need either four different icons or split it into two different columns (one for requested state, one for actual state). Btw, I do not think that accepting or rejecting really matters for a disabled queue.

What do you think is so bad mixing up icons and text?

A picture says more than a thousand words. Once you start with translations, text really becomes nasty for this kind of information. Klaus --- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org

Johannes Meixner wrote:

What about this text-only style: http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Printer_jsmeix_overview_all.png

An icon is much quicker to process by the human mind and it is much more salient if a column of icons is separated by text. So, lets please stick to Jiris suggestion. Cu, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ux+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ux+help@opensuse.org