Johannes Meixner napsal(a):
Hello, On Feb 5 21:29 Rajko M. wrote (shortened):
On Tuesday 05 February 2008 02:21:28 am Lukas Ocilka wrote:
I'm afraid that there are more than just two people :) I also rather do like more in one dialog than four tabs. I know there is more, but someone has to say that :-)
Having both local queues and remote queues in one single overview and have them nevertheless strictly separated is the fundamental "message" which must be made obvious to the user because this tells him in one single overview what the printing stuff is all about.
It's all about printing, details might come when user wants to configure how to print (local printer, remote queue, local queue, ...). A simple overview can show already configured devices and queues at once.
Mix up local queues and remote queues in one list might look better on the first glance for those who don't know what the printing stuff is all about but it doesn't help them to deal with it. It does even confuse them because they will not be made aware of the crucial distinction between local queues and remote queues and what one can do with each of them.
I'm afraid that splitting into more and more tabs will help even less because users will never find what they are looking for, especially when they are unsure what *exactly* they are looking for. In my opinion, what users want is *to configure a printer or queue* to use them for printing. Additional sharing local printers to another clients can be done via per-device basis. User mustn't be scared with *so many options* we provide. Having four different tabs makes user run away, especially with terms they don't understand. Configuring a printer or print queue is nice example for Configuration wizard: YaST asks for simple questions, user selects from simple options.
Provide local queues and remote queues on two different screens (e.g. via two tabs or whatever the usability experts like) might look better on the first glance for those who don't know what the printing stuff is all about but it makes it harder for them to deal with it. When only the local queues are shown by default it is no longer obvious when there exist already remote queues which are ready to be used for printing in the network. Users might then start to set up local queues when they like to print in the network but the [Add] button is the wrong way for printing in the network with CUPS.
Almost nobody (except Johannes) exactly knows what all this stuff is really about :) ;) The only way is to provide a simple view to that problematics: * Newbie users would not run away because of thousands of check-boxes and other options. * Experienced users would almost know what is it about and where to find and tune details. * Experts would configure cups directly or know exactly where to find the options.
By the way:
The word "printer" becomes meaningless when "queue" is not used. When "printer" can mean both the device and its queue, the meaning of "printer" is degenerated to "thingy regarding printing". This does not provide real information so that it is meaningless.
It doesn't matter whether a printer is local or remote or how do you print with it (directly, cups). What matters it what users want to do: just print. It doesn't make sense to configure a printer (or queue) just to have it configured. Printing must be transparent: you have document and you want to have it printed. Philosophical questions can be reduced to simple human-understandable tasks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer * Printer (publisher), a company or person who operates a printing press * Computer printer, a computer peripheral that reproduces text and/or pictures * Optical printer, a device to copy and/or modify images on motion picture film http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_printer A computer printer, or more commonly a printer, produces a hard copy (permanent human-readable text and/or graphics) of documents stored in electronic form, usually on physical print media such as paper or transparencies.
It does not mean that we must use "queue" in the dialogs. But it does mean that we can no longer use "printer" when we mean the device.
As well as I don't agree with the the argument, I don't agree with te conclusion.
Therefore we should use strictly "device" when we talk about the piece of hardware and we can use "printer" or "configuration" or whatever else fits - except "device" - when we mean the queue.
The device is called a "printer". And at the end, a printer prints the document. Exception: 'Virtual Printer' that creates and stores a Post Script or PDF document instead of printing it :)
The wording "printer" for queue and "device" for the hardware is even consistent with the wording in CUPS.
We should keep consistent with how humans understand it. Because our users are (mainly) humans :)
As a small exercise think about the differences regarding the meaning behind the following terms: - local queue for a directly connected device - local queue for a local device - local queue for a remote device - remote queue for a directly connected device - remote queue for a local device - remote queue for a remote device
Simple overview can show details for each configured printer (device) or queue. You can't have tabs for all possibilities.
... Johannes has some ideas that IMHO are more promissing, than currently discussed UI design. Look at one of threads "printer module". The text included in line with buttons can explain what buttons can't.
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-ux/2007-05/msg00075.html http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-ux/2007-05/msg00087.html
Unfortunately any further discussion is futile because descriptive texts for buttons was already rejected. Instead we have exhaustive discussions about button names...
A style guide (haha) defines, that some buttons can have more informative label: [ Print ] [ Cancel ] [ Yes, Shut-Down ] [ Cancel ] ... But they are mostly used in pop-ups. Have a nice day Lukas -- Lukas Ocilka, YaST Developer (xn--luk-gla45d) ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s. r. o., Lihovarska 1060/12, Praha 9, Czech Republic