Am 31.08.19 um 17:06 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

On 31/08/2019 15.41, Markus Egg wrote:

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So as an example: the conventient way to set XFCE background on Ubuntu was and is like shown in ConvenientDesktopSet.jpg

Please, instead of attaching photos, upload them to susepaste.org, then post the links here.

Sorry for that one and thanks for information. Shall I delete the previous post (can I?) and repost? BR -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 31/08/2019 20.24, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Dave Howorth <> [08-31-19 11:38]:

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On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 15:41:44 +0200 Markus Egg <> wrote:

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I am running SuSE Tumbleweed on a desktop and on an older laptop (for test purposes).

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<rant on> Where did the message of "never change a runnning machine" go? <rant off> :-(

You asked for bleeding edge by running TW. If you prefer stability, run Leap.

while the "perception" of "stability" is as you state, it is undeserved. Tumbleweed has performed admirably for many years for me and I have seen many more posts of problems related to "stability" and/or expectations of Leap versions.

"Stability" appears more related to the user's choice of repositories and inexperience than the standard repo's application offerings. I cannot remember the last system hang I experienced.

Stability is not only "not hanging" (entire machine or a part of it), but about configuration of "things" not changing. It is about things that worked not being changed and as a consequence a feature not working, or the thing not working entirely - either because of breakage or because it needs adapting the configuration. TW doesn't have that stability, by definition. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

* Carlos E. R. [08-31-19 15:01]:

On 31/08/2019 20.24, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Dave Howorth <> [08-31-19 11:38]:

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On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 15:41:44 +0200 Markus Egg <> wrote:

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I am running SuSE Tumbleweed on a desktop and on an older laptop (for test purposes).

...

<rant on> Where did the message of "never change a runnning machine" go? <rant off> :-(

You asked for bleeding edge by running TW. If you prefer stability, run Leap.

while the "perception" of "stability" is as you state, it is undeserved. Tumbleweed has performed admirably for many years for me and I have seen many more posts of problems related to "stability" and/or expectations of Leap versions.

"Stability" appears more related to the user's choice of repositories and inexperience than the standard repo's application offerings. I cannot remember the last system hang I experienced.

Stability is not only "not hanging" (entire machine or a part of it), but about configuration of "things" not changing. It is about things that worked not being changed and as a consequence a feature not working, or the thing not working entirely - either because of breakage or because it needs adapting the configuration.

agreed

TW doesn't have that stability, by definition.

but does exhibit it regardless of definition. evidenced by the many more problems presented here for Leap version vs Tumbleweed. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin composed on 2019-09-01 01:25 (UTC-0400):

Markus Egg wrote:

Add the KDE3 repo and install it. It has always been more capable than XFCE, hasn't changed in 10 years, and the openSUSE team has the absolute best kept KDE3 desktop on the planet. The only drawback is...

There's another drawback. You reported it in 42.2. It's still seriously annoying as of 15.1: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1047852 -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin composed on 2019-09-02 02:55 (UTC-0500):

Felix Miata wrote:

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David C. Rankin composed on 2019-09-01 01:25 (UTC-0400):

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Add the KDE3 repo and install it. It has always been more capable than XFCE, hasn't changed in 10 years, and the openSUSE team has the absolute best kept KDE3 desktop on the planet. The only drawback is...

...

There's another drawback. You reported it in 42.2. It's still seriously annoying as of 15.1: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1047852

I will take one or two known drawbacks any day compared to wasting 1-2 hours per-day collecting data, running diagnostics and writing bug reports :)

Another, rather significant, still happening in TW 20190829: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1141391 -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Am 01.09.19 um 13:59 schrieb Peter Suetterlin:

Markus Egg wrote:

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Hello,

I am running SuSE Tumbleweed on a desktop and on an older laptop (for test purposes).

On both machines after the last zypper ref/dup/up cycle the complete XFCE desktop was changed, many of the settings were lost and the way how one can change e.g. the desktop background was changed in a way that it is more inconvenient.

I do know that XFCE per se did not change, because on another Laptop with Ubuntu 18.04 the XFCE desktop and settings were the same after the last updates.

This is a completely unusable comparison. Tumbleweed is rolling release, and follows upstream. So if there is a new version of a package, it will be included sooner or later without (too much) further notice.

This is the reason why one runs a rolling release. If you do not like it, don't use it. It *is* as easy as that.

Ubuntu is *not* a rolling release distribution, and therefore no update will change the (major) version of installed software. Claiming XFCE has not changed because it's unchanged in Ubuntu is close to ridiculous IMHO.

I do appreciate the rolling release approach. But that is not the topic here. I am adressing the rather useless changes regarding settings of XFCE. Like similar problems with KDE listed here before: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=341143 These are tiny bits and pieces and not regarding stability directly, but the "it was usable before, why did you remove it"-feeling.

If that behavior (sticking with a release, in doubt backporting fixes) is what you want, use Leap, and NOT Tumbleweed.

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<rant on> Where did the message of "never change a runnning machine" go? <rant off>

Where did 'read about what you install before you do so' go?

The change of XFCE from 4.12 to 4.14 was announced here on August 23.

I see, that I rather post this issue in one of the XFCE forums. BR -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org