[opensuse] YaST language confusion

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gumb

6 Aug 2019 6 Aug '19

20:37

New install, Leap 15.1. Just getting basics set up. I generally use English (GB) for all system setup and desktop interface elements, with French added as a keyboard layout and/or for secondary language support. So after looking yesterday in YaST -> Software Management and viewing the Language tab, I scrolled down to fr and ticked 4 or 5 additional French packages, including yast2-trans-fr. Today when I start YaST, all the menus are in French. Ok, I can use it, but I prefer that it stays in English, for now at least. I just like to have French as a switchable standby for providing/receiving support, and/or for possible additional system users. So thinking it must be that yast2-trans-fr package I added which is responsible, I remove it again. When I start up YaST again, the menus are still in French, whereas the configuration options shown within each YaST category are in English for some and French for others. I've looked in the root home, in /etc and cannot find where this is configured. At the bottom of the file /etc/sysconfig/language, is a setting described as 'List of installed language supports, use by YaST2'. It is set as INSTALLED_LANGUAGES="en_GB" Everything else in the system is in English GB. Why is it overriding this in YaST, and where is this set? gumb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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Oleksii Vilchanskyi

7 Aug 7 Aug

07:01

On 06/08/2019 22:37, gumb wrote:

...

New install, Leap 15.1.

Just getting basics set up. I generally use English (GB) for all system setup and desktop interface elements, with French added as a keyboard layout and/or for secondary language support. So after looking yesterday in YaST -> Software Management and viewing the Language tab, I scrolled down to fr and ticked 4 or 5 additional French packages, including yast2-trans-fr.

Today when I start YaST, all the menus are in French. Ok, I can use it, but I prefer that it stays in English, for now at least. I just like to have French as a switchable standby for providing/receiving support, and/or for possible additional system users. So thinking it must be that yast2-trans-fr package I added which is responsible, I remove it again. When I start up YaST again, the menus are still in French, whereas the configuration options shown within each YaST category are in English for some and French for others.

I've looked in the root home, in /etc and cannot find where this is configured. At the bottom of the file /etc/sysconfig/language, is a setting described as 'List of installed language supports, use by YaST2'. It is set as INSTALLED_LANGUAGES="en_GB"

Everything else in the system is in English GB. Why is it overriding this in YaST, and where is this set?

gumb

Did you relogin? Show the output of % locale and % sudo locale === Generally, this is how I configure locale under KDE: % kcmshell5 formats Configure main locale to en_IE, and currency to cs_CZ, everything else is "do not change". Relogin. % locale LANG=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_CTYPE=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_NUMERIC=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_TIME=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_COLLATE=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_MONETARY=cs_CZ.UTF-8 LC_MESSAGES=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_PAPER=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_NAME="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_ADDRESS="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_TELEPHONE="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_MEASUREMENT="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_ALL= % sudo locale LC_CTYPE="POSIX" ... % kdesu yast2 language Set main language to English (US) -> Details -> en_IE. Yast complains about missing support and fallback to en_US, at the same time downloading spelling dictionaries for en_GB and en_IE. Tick secondary languages (Czech, Ukrainian, Russian). Press OK, Yast installs translations, dictionaries and configures /etc/sysconfig/language. % sudo vim /etc/sysconfig/language Manually fill in RC_* vars so they match the output of `locale` above. % grep '^[^#]' /etc/sysconfig/language | grep RC RC_LANG="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_ALL="" RC_LC_MESSAGES="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_CTYPE="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_COLLATE="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_TIME="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_NUMERIC="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_MONETARY="cs_CZ.UTF-8" RC_LC_PAPER="en_IE.UTF-8" % grep '^[^#]' /etc/sysconfig/language | grep INS INSTALLED_LANGUAGES="cs_CZ,ru_RU,uk_UA,en_IE" Relogin. `sudo locale` output is now identical to `locale`, and the system contains desired spelling dictionaries. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

gumb

8 Aug 8 Aug

23:39

Left this alone for 48 hours because it's driving me insane. It doesn't make sense. I've been running with openSUSE with pretty much the same settings (i.e. English UK as primary language, French sometimes only as secondary keyboard layout and with language support in software that provides it). For years across many versions I've had no issue, it behaves as I expect it to. Now I've got an incomprehensible mishmash of English and French. The main YaST menu is in French, whilst most individual configuration dialogs are in English. I get French messages in Konsole (user and root) despite the interface being in English. Firefox's interface also in French. Yet in Plasma System Settings -> Regional Settings -> Language, I have British English at the top of the Preferred Languages box, followed by American English, and français in third position underneath. For the Formats, I actually wanted a mixture of UK and French, for example I prefer British numbers but Metric measurements. I tried this though considered I might get confused, so have now selected UK as the Region at the top, then French for everything else underneath. Additional notes below. On 07/08/2019 09:01, Oleksii Vilchanskyi wrote:

...

Did you relogin?

Yes, and rebooted, several times. Nothing I change seems to make the difference.

...

Show the output of % locale and % sudo locale

Not in a position to copy the output from the other machine to this old one I'm typing on yet. It's a mixture of EN_GB and FR. See end of this message.

...

Generally, this is how I configure locale under KDE:

% kcmshell5 formats

Configure main locale to en_IE, and currency to cs_CZ, everything else is "do not change".

Relogin.

Well, mine's as I explained above. But I don't see why the formats I choose here are relevant to my getting French language, when I've explicitly selected English language in that other dedicated dialog.

...

% locale LANG=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_CTYPE=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_NUMERIC=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_TIME=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_COLLATE=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_MONETARY=cs_CZ.UTF-8 LC_MESSAGES=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_PAPER=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_NAME="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_ADDRESS="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_TELEPHONE="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_MEASUREMENT="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_ALL=

% sudo locale LC_CTYPE="POSIX" ...

Mine are more jumbled up, for both user and root. See below.

...

% kdesu yast2 language

Set main language to English (US) -> Details -> en_IE. Yast complains about missing support and fallback to en_US, at the same time downloading spelling dictionaries for en_GB and en_IE.

Tick secondary languages (Czech, Ukrainian, Russian).

Press OK, Yast installs translations, dictionaries and configures /etc/sysconfig/language.

Here, I just have English (UK) as Primary Language. I haven't even selected French or any other Secondary Languages. I don't feel I really need to at this level. Which only makes the applications' confusion more baffling.

...

% sudo vim /etc/sysconfig/language

Manually fill in RC_* vars so they match the output of `locale` above.

% grep '^[^#]' /etc/sysconfig/language | grep RC RC_LANG="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_ALL="" RC_LC_MESSAGES="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_CTYPE="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_COLLATE="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_TIME="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_NUMERIC="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_MONETARY="cs_CZ.UTF-8" RC_LC_PAPER="en_IE.UTF-8"

% grep '^[^#]' /etc/sysconfig/language | grep INS INSTALLED_LANGUAGES="cs_CZ,ru_RU,uk_UA,en_IE"

Relogin.

`sudo locale` output is now identical to `locale`, and the system contains desired spelling dictionaries.

Well, that'll have to be the last resort, but it's a lot of additional configuration that was never necessary in the past. And frankly, there's still no logic because all the categories in this locale list that I would assume could have some influence on the places I'm seeing French are set to English. Those that I have in French are NUMERIC, TIME, COLLATE, MONETARY and MEASUREMENT. The others are English, except ALL which is blank, like in your example. The French packages I added where this changed are: kde-l10n-fr kde-l10n-fr-data kde-l10n-fr-doc myspell-fr_FR translation-update-fr libreoffice-l10n-fr yast2-trans-fr But, critically, I already have all the en_GB equivalents of these installed as well. I've since uninstalled yast2-trans-fr and translation-update-fr, but it made no difference. Effectively, the only things my system's got to go on in suspecting my French preferences are my selection of French timezone, and my preferred French formats for numbers, time, paper, money and measurement. Oh, and a switchable keyboard layout. At what point has the system decided, 'yep, he definitely wants half of his apps to be in French too, despite him explicitly telling us to pick English'? After my last changes to the Formats and another relogin, Firefox has now decided to switch back to English. But why? I changed FORMATS, not LANGUAGE. This is utterly nonsensical. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

9 Aug 9 Aug

06:21

On 09/08/2019 01.39, gumb wrote:

...

Left this alone for 48 hours because it's driving me insane. It doesn't make sense. I've been running with openSUSE with pretty much the same settings (i.e. English UK as primary language, French sometimes only as secondary keyboard layout and with language support in software that provides it). For years across many versions I've had no issue, it behaves as I expect it to. Now I've got an incomprehensible mishmash of English and French.

...

...
Show the output of % locale and % sudo locale

Not in a position to copy the output from the other machine to this old one I'm typing on yet. It's a mixture of EN_GB and FR. See end of this message.

We need seeing it, both root and your user. Do not use ssh to get it, because the ssh can have a different one. Besides than "sudo locale", I would like: locale su - locale ...

...

The main YaST menu is in French, whilst most individual configuration dialogs are in English. I get French messages in Konsole (user and root) despite the interface being in English. Firefox's interface also in French. Yet in Plasma System Settings -> Regional Settings -> Language, I have British English at the top of the Preferred Languages box, followed by American English, and français in third position underneath.

You possibly have several problems. One, KDE handling of language, which controls the interface language. Is it English? Two, messages in French inside Konsole. This is controlled by "locale", so you have to run that command inside Konsole and paste for us to see. Third, if in a program, say YaST, you see parts in French, parts in English, it is because the translations are incomplete or deprecated, which makes the program revert to English USA, not UK (actually, English UK is handled as another translation, ie, another language). This is handled on single message basis, not the entire program. In the same screen it is possible to have this mixture - and the solution for this is to report as translation bug. This issue does not apply to big programs such as Mozilla or LibreOffice, that have a separate translation package for each language. ...

...

Effectively, the only things my system's got to go on in suspecting my French preferences are my selection of French timezone, and my preferred French formats for numbers, time, paper, money and measurement. Oh, and a switchable keyboard layout. At what point has the system decided, 'yep, he definitely wants half of his apps to be in French too, despite him explicitly telling us to pick English'? After my last changes to the Formats and another relogin, Firefox has now decided to switch back to English. But why? I changed FORMATS, not LANGUAGE. This is utterly nonsensical.

Re Firefox/Thunderbird, you may be affected by an unsolved bug related to locale - but apparently only the time/date display. Looking at Thunderbird setup, go to advanced, General, date and time formatting. It can be "application locale" or "regional settings locale". The later is problematic. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

gumb

10 Aug 10 Aug

11:49

On 09/08/2019 08:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...
...
Show the output of % locale and % sudo locale

Not in a position to copy the output from the other machine to this old one I'm typing on yet. It's a mixture of EN_GB and FR. See end of this message.

We need seeing it, both root and your user. Do not use ssh to get it, because the ssh can have a different one. Besides than "sudo locale", I would like:

locale su - locale

As follows, it's identical for both user and root: % locale LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_NUMERIC=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_TIME=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_COLLATE=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_MONETARY=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_MESSAGES=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_PAPER=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_NAME="en_GB.UTF-8" LC_ADDRESS="en_GB.UTF-8" LC_TELEPHONE="en_GB.UTF-8" LC_MEASUREMENT="fr_FR.UTF-8" LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_GB.UTF-8" LC_ALL=

...

You possibly have several problems.

One, KDE handling of language, which controls the interface language. Is it English?

Yes, interface elements are all in English.

...

Two, messages in French inside Konsole. This is controlled by "locale", so you have to run that command inside Konsole and paste for us to see.

Third, if in a program, say YaST, you see parts in French, parts in English, it is because the translations are incomplete or deprecated, which makes the program revert to English USA, not UK (actually, English UK is handled as another translation, ie, another language). This is handled on single message basis, not the entire program. In the same screen it is possible to have this mixture - and the solution for this is to report as translation bug.

I may be wrong but I think there's some other bug there. Without having checked every last category, all that I'm looking at now seem to be in English, but the main YaST Control Centre dialog is in French. I wonder if it's pulling some cached version from when I had switched that yast2-lang-fr package and for some reason is not reverting.

...

This issue does not apply to big programs such as Mozilla or LibreOffice, that have a separate translation package for each language.

...

Re Firefox/Thunderbird, you may be affected by an unsolved bug related to locale - but apparently only the time/date display. Looking at Thunderbird setup, go to advanced, General, date and time formatting. It can be "application locale" or "regional settings locale". The later is problematic.

Not yet set these up fully, will come back to that. Cheers, gumb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

17:04

On 10/08/2019 13.49, gumb wrote:

...

On 09/08/2019 08:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
...
...
Show the output of % locale and % sudo locale

Not in a position to copy the output from the other machine to this old one I'm typing on yet. It's a mixture of EN_GB and FR. See end of this message.

We need seeing it, both root and your user. Do not use ssh to get it, because the ssh can have a different one. Besides than "sudo locale", I would like:

locale su - locale

As follows, it's identical for both user and root:

% locale LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_NUMERIC=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_TIME=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_COLLATE=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_MONETARY=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_MESSAGES=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_PAPER=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_NAME="en_GB.UTF-8" LC_ADDRESS="en_GB.UTF-8" LC_TELEPHONE="en_GB.UTF-8" LC_MEASUREMENT="fr_FR.UTF-8" LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_GB.UTF-8" LC_ALL=

According to that, programs should output in English, not French. There is another setting in KDE: KDE_LANG

...

...
You possibly have several problems.

One, KDE handling of language, which controls the interface language. Is it English?

Yes, interface elements are all in English.

Ah.

...

...
Two, messages in French inside Konsole. This is controlled by "locale", so you have to run that command inside Konsole and paste for us to see.

And it has LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_MESSAGES=en_GB.UTF-8 so they should display in English only.

...

...
Third, if in a program, say YaST, you see parts in French, parts in English, it is because the translations are incomplete or deprecated, which makes the program revert to English USA, not UK (actually, English UK is handled as another translation, ie, another language). This is handled on single message basis, not the entire program. In the same screen it is possible to have this mixture - and the solution for this is to report as translation bug.

I may be wrong but I think there's some other bug there. Without having checked every last category, all that I'm looking at now seem to be in English, but the main YaST Control Centre dialog is in French. I wonder if it's pulling some cached version from when I had switched that yast2-lang-fr package and for some reason is not reverting.

Yes, this is some other problem I'm not aware of. It is not normal. Can you try using Gnome or XFCE? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

gumb

17:41

On 10/08/2019 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

According to that, programs should output in English, not French. There is another setting in KDE:

KDE_LANG

It now seems to be mostly root-related things that are affected. But in Dolphin, for instance, I'm trying to access a cifs mount that works fine on my old machine but is now refusing to obey on the new one, and I get an error message in the Dolphin window, thus: 'An error occurred while accessing 'Home', the system responded: mount: /home/media: opération permise uniquement pour root.'

...

Can you try using Gnome or XFCE?

I'm not going to. This is a fresh install but I have to get all my data transferred over in the next 48 hours to take the laptop with me abroad, so that's my priority. I can live with this weirdness. But I don't want to clutter the new system with unnecessary DEs either. Just looking at files in /root/.config I see in plasma-localerc the following: [Formats] LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_COLLATE=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_MEASUREMENT=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_MONETARY=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_NUMERIC=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_TIME="fr_FR.UTF-8" useDetailed=true Again, nothing amiss there. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

17:52

On 10/08/2019 19.41, gumb wrote:

...

On 10/08/2019 19:04, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
According to that, programs should output in English, not French. There is another setting in KDE:

KDE_LANG

It now seems to be mostly root-related things that are affected. But in Dolphin, for instance, I'm trying to access a cifs mount that works fine on my old machine but is now refusing to obey on the new one, and I get an error message in the Dolphin window, thus: 'An error occurred while accessing 'Home', the system responded: mount: /home/media: opération permise uniquement pour root.'

Oh?

...

...
Can you try using Gnome or XFCE?

I'm not going to. This is a fresh install but I have to get all my data transferred over in the next 48 hours to take the laptop with me abroad, so that's my priority. I can live with this weirdness. But I don't want to clutter the new system with unnecessary DEs either.

Ok. You could try without installing anything, a desktop that is used as failsafe that should be in every system. I forget the name. Should be in the menu just before login.

...

Just looking at files in /root/.config I see in plasma-localerc the following:

[Formats] LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 LC_COLLATE=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_MEASUREMENT=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_MONETARY=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_NUMERIC=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_TIME="fr_FR.UTF-8" useDetailed=true

Again, nothing amiss there.

This one is weird: LC_COLLATE It is usually the same as the work language. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

gumb

11 Aug 11 Aug

19:44

Not really got time to deal with this now but latest observation, upon playing an mp4 video for the first time today on the new machine: If I open it in VLC I get the interface in French. If I open it in Dragon Player it's in English. :-/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

gumb

2 Sep 2 Sep

21:37

On 11/08/2019 21:44, gumb wrote:

...

Not really got time to deal with this now but latest observation, upon playing an mp4 video for the first time today on the new machine: If I open it in VLC I get the interface in French. If I open it in Dragon Player it's in English.

:-/

To come back on this after not being at home for a while, I think I've found the culprit. The utterly nonsensical, imbecilic culprit. The clue came whilst away and setting up another Leap 15.1 machine. I was doing a fresh root install and preserving home. It's a PC with more than one user account, one being my own that I use when there to administer things. I'm the only user that might ever require non-English things, but I don't need full French translation options like on my own PC. So, in Plasma System Settings -> Regional Settings -> Language, I added français *underneath* both British English and American English as preferred languages. This should relegate it to pretty much never used status, but it was after that point, having already done a lot of configuration, that suddenly YaST and some other apps started showing French dialogs. This baffles me. If in a descending list of preferred languages I have both British and American English, in a world dominated by English-language software and development as a primary or default option, why would so many applications dismiss those and prefer my third choice of French? I see there is an official update today to YaST French translations which were apparently insufficient previously, though I deliberately hadn't applied it yet because I wanted to see if removing français from the list in the System Settings module would correct the issue, which it does. After a reboot, YaST is now back to English. Go figure. gumb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

23:22

* gumb [09-02-19 17:38]:

...

On 11/08/2019 21:44, gumb wrote:

...
Not really got time to deal with this now but latest observation, upon playing an mp4 video for the first time today on the new machine: If I open it in VLC I get the interface in French. If I open it in Dragon Player it's in English.

:-/

To come back on this after not being at home for a while, I think I've found the culprit. The utterly nonsensical, imbecilic culprit.

quite usually directly related to the sysadmin?user. tldnr rant -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

gumb

3 Sep 3 Sep

09:08

On 03/09/2019 01:22, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* gumb [09-02-19 17:38]:

...
On 11/08/2019 21:44, gumb wrote:

...
Not really got time to deal with this now but latest observation, upon playing an mp4 video for the first time today on the new machine: If I open it in VLC I get the interface in French. If I open it in Dragon Player it's in English.

:-/

To come back on this after not being at home for a while, I think I've found the culprit. The utterly nonsensical, imbecilic culprit.

quite usually directly related to the sysadmin?user.

tldnr rant

Well, I'm only trying to do the right thing by coming back to post an update / solution to this *bug* (which I intend to file) for the benefit of anybody else who stumbles on this thread. I don't see how your snarky and - in view of the details, incorrect - presumption, does anything to help. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

12:20

On 02/09/2019 23.37, gumb wrote:

...

On 11/08/2019 21:44, gumb wrote:

...
Not really got time to deal with this now but latest observation, upon playing an mp4 video for the first time today on the new machine: If I open it in VLC I get the interface in French. If I open it in Dragon Player it's in English.

:-/

To come back on this after not being at home for a while, I think I've found the culprit. The utterly nonsensical, imbecilic culprit.

The clue came whilst away and setting up another Leap 15.1 machine. I was doing a fresh root install and preserving home. It's a PC with more than one user account, one being my own that I use when there to administer things. I'm the only user that might ever require non-English things, but I don't need full French translation options like on my own PC. So, in Plasma System Settings -> Regional Settings -> Language, I added français *underneath* both British English and American English as preferred languages. This should relegate it to pretty much never used status, but it was after that point, having already done a lot of configuration, that suddenly YaST and some other apps started showing French dialogs.

This baffles me. If in a descending list of preferred languages I have both British and American English, in a world dominated by English-language software and development as a primary or default option, why would so many applications dismiss those and prefer my third choice of French?

I see there is an official update today to YaST French translations which were apparently insufficient previously, though I deliberately hadn't applied it yet because I wanted to see if removing français from the list in the System Settings module would correct the issue, which it does. After a reboot, YaST is now back to English.

Go figure.

Sorry, I'm confused. You say the translation update solved the issue? I can not replicate for two reasons: I use root in English and I do not want to change that, and I do not use KDE. Reason is, the translation of many man pages are missing or obsolete. I translate some programs, but I know how things are, and I prefer to see things in English. No translation errors. :-( -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Dave Howorth

12:37

On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 14:20:52 +0200 "Carlos E. R." wrote:

...

On 02/09/2019 23.37, gumb wrote:

...
On 11/08/2019 21:44, gumb wrote:

...
Not really got time to deal with this now but latest observation, upon playing an mp4 video for the first time today on the new machine: If I open it in VLC I get the interface in French. If I open it in Dragon Player it's in English.

:-/

To come back on this after not being at home for a while, I think I've found the culprit. The utterly nonsensical, imbecilic culprit.

The clue came whilst away and setting up another Leap 15.1 machine. I was doing a fresh root install and preserving home. It's a PC with more than one user account, one being my own that I use when there to administer things. I'm the only user that might ever require non-English things, but I don't need full French translation options like on my own PC. So, in Plasma System Settings -> Regional Settings -> Language, I added français *underneath* both British English and American English as preferred languages. This should relegate it to pretty much never used status, but it was after that point, having already done a lot of configuration, that suddenly YaST and some other apps started showing French dialogs.

This baffles me. If in a descending list of preferred languages I have both British and American English, in a world dominated by English-language software and development as a primary or default option, why would so many applications dismiss those and prefer my third choice of French?

I see there is an official update today to YaST French translations which were apparently insufficient previously, though I deliberately hadn't applied it yet because I wanted to see if removing français from the list in the System Settings module would correct the issue, which it does. After a reboot, YaST is now back to English.

Go figure.

Sorry, I'm confused. You say the translation update solved the issue?

No, he said removing French from the Plasma settings fixed it.

...

I can not replicate for two reasons: I use root in English and I do not want to change that, and I do not use KDE.

Reason is, the translation of many man pages are missing or obsolete. I translate some programs, but I know how things are, and I prefer to see things in English. No translation errors. :-(

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

13:00

On 03/09/2019 14.37, Dave Howorth wrote:

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On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 14:20:52 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

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On 02/09/2019 23.37, gumb wrote:

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On 11/08/2019 21:44, gumb wrote:

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Go figure.

Sorry, I'm confused. You say the translation update solved the issue?

No, he said removing French from the Plasma settings fixed it.

But that is not fixing, that's defeat! -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Dave Howorth

14:07

On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 15:00:19 +0200 "Carlos E. R." wrote:

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On 03/09/2019 14.37, Dave Howorth wrote:

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On Tue, 3 Sep 2019 14:20:52 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

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On 02/09/2019 23.37, gumb wrote:

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On 11/08/2019 21:44, gumb wrote:

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Go figure.

Sorry, I'm confused. You say the translation update solved the issue?

No, he said removing French from the Plasma settings fixed it.

But that is not fixing, that's defeat!

No, that's good diagnosis prior to bug-reporting. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

gumb

13:01

On 03/09/2019 14:37, Dave Howorth wrote:

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No, he said removing French from the Plasma settings fixed it.

Correct. The YaST French translation update appearing yesterday was merely a coincidence, but I was confirming that prior to applying that update, the issue was resolved by something else. To clarify the problem, in Plasma System Settings -> Regional Settings -> Language, if you click the question mark and the help text for the heading 'Preferred Languages', the help tooltip states this: Translations ------------ "Here you can set your preferred language for translating the user interface of your applications. You can choose a single language, or a list of languages to be applied in sequence. Only language translations that are installed on your system will be listed as available. If your language is not listed then you will need to install it first." --- Then, if you hover over a language selected in this list, you get the following help tooltip: "This is the list of installed KDE Plasma language translations currently being used, listed in order of preference. If a translation is not available for the first language in the list, the next language will be used. If no other translations are available then US English will be used." --- So this logic is not being applied. Or at least, it seems to be applied in most KDE/Qt5 apps but not everything else. I have British English top of the list, US English underneath and français third. Consequently, Firefox/Thunderbird are a bit mixed up between English and French language elements, and though I use the Qt interface for YaST, its main menu is in French and the actual modules in English. If some French YaST translations were incomplete previously, it should have fallen back to British or US English, but rather the opposite was occurring. (Since it could be wondered why in such case I would elect to have French at all, my reasons are a) for sometimes understanding French interface elements for producing documentation and help, and b) for situations where for example my French employer uses particular software and I need to get up to speed on the menus and options as shown in French.) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

13:24

On 03/09/2019 15.01, gumb wrote:

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On 03/09/2019 14:37, Dave Howorth wrote:

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No, he said removing French from the Plasma settings fixed it.

Correct. The YaST French translation update appearing yesterday was merely a coincidence, but I was confirming that prior to applying that update, the issue was resolved by something else.

To clarify the problem, in Plasma System Settings -> Regional Settings -> Language, if you click the question mark and the help text for the heading 'Preferred Languages', the help tooltip states this:

Translations ------------

"Here you can set your preferred language for translating the user interface of your applications. You can choose a single language, or a list of languages to be applied in sequence. Only language translations that are installed on your system will be listed as available. If your language is not listed then you will need to install it first."

---

Then, if you hover over a language selected in this list, you get the following help tooltip:

"This is the list of installed KDE Plasma language translations currently being used, listed in order of preference. If a translation is not available for the first language in the list, the next language will be used. If no other translations are available then US English will be used."

---

So this logic is not being applied. Or at least, it seems to be applied in most KDE/Qt5 apps but not everything else. I have British English top of the list, US English underneath and français third. Consequently, Firefox/Thunderbird are a bit mixed up between English and French language elements, and though I use the Qt interface for YaST, its main menu is in French and the actual modules in English. If some French YaST translations were incomplete previously, it should have fallen back to British or US English, but rather the opposite was occurring.

I understand now :-)

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(Since it could be wondered why in such case I would elect to have French at all, my reasons are a) for sometimes understanding French interface elements for producing documentation and help,

Good reason! :-)

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and b) for situations where for example my French employer uses particular software and I need to get up to speed on the menus and options as shown in French.)

Also good reason :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

gumb

15:46

After paddling through bugs.kde.org this seems to be an issue dating back years, perhaps even more than a decade. I've added a comment to one bug, referencing a few others I found in the process: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=327757#c13 Frankly, the whole thing seems such a mess I'm inclined to just concede and, as I state in my comment, use the following alternative approaches: * If I want the whole DE and apps in French, I'll pick that in System Settings and put it top of the list, log out and back in. * If I want an individual KDE app in French, depending upon the app, there is often an option under the Help menu to Switch Application Language, which requires only to restart the app. * Another option is to have a separate user account set to French, though of course that's no good for when I want to use my existing user data in apps. The debate is too long and the arguments too numerous in the bugs I found for me to want to spend more time there, unless someone requests more info. gumb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

18:20

On 03/09/2019 17.46, gumb wrote:

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After paddling through bugs.kde.org this seems to be an issue dating back years, perhaps even more than a decade. I've added a comment to one bug, referencing a few others I found in the process: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=327757#c13

Frankly, the whole thing seems such a mess I'm inclined to just concede and, as I state in my comment, use the following alternative approaches:

:-( So it is a KDE issue. Thus I could not see it.

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* If I want the whole DE and apps in French, I'll pick that in System Settings and put it top of the list, log out and back in. * If I want an individual KDE app in French, depending upon the app, there is often an option under the Help menu to Switch Application Language, which requires only to restart the app. * Another option is to have a separate user account set to French, though of course that's no good for when I want to use my existing user data in apps.

The debate is too long and the arguments too numerous in the bugs I found for me to want to spend more time there, unless someone requests more info.

Two users with same uid, different home folders, perhaps? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Carlos E. R.

12:14

On 11/08/2019 21.44, gumb wrote:

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Not really got time to deal with this now but latest observation, upon playing an mp4 video for the first time today on the new machine: If I open it in VLC I get the interface in French. If I open it in Dragon Player it's in English.

:-/

Remember that if the translation of a program is incomplete, you get the interface in English. Or a mix. I did the experiment. Telcontar:~ # cat /usr/local/bin/frances #!/bin/sh LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8 LC_ALL=fr_FR.UTF-8 DICTIONARY=frances KDE_LANG=fr_FR exec "$@" Telcontar:~ # Then run: frances dragon and I get the interface in French - using XFCE desktop. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Oleksii Vilchanskyi

10 Aug 10 Aug

18:10

On 07/08/2019 09:01, Oleksii Vilchanskyi wrote:

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On 06/08/2019 22:37, gumb wrote:

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New install, Leap 15.1.

Just getting basics set up. I generally use English (GB) for all system setup and desktop interface elements, with French added as a keyboard layout and/or for secondary language support. So after looking yesterday in YaST -> Software Management and viewing the Language tab, I scrolled down to fr and ticked 4 or 5 additional French packages, including yast2-trans-fr.

Today when I start YaST, all the menus are in French. Ok, I can use it, but I prefer that it stays in English, for now at least. I just like to have French as a switchable standby for providing/receiving support, and/or for possible additional system users. So thinking it must be that yast2-trans-fr package I added which is responsible, I remove it again. When I start up YaST again, the menus are still in French, whereas the configuration options shown within each YaST category are in English for some and French for others.

I've looked in the root home, in /etc and cannot find where this is configured. At the bottom of the file /etc/sysconfig/language, is a setting described as 'List of installed language supports, use by YaST2'. It is set as INSTALLED_LANGUAGES="en_GB"

Everything else in the system is in English GB. Why is it overriding this in YaST, and where is this set?

gumb

Did you relogin?

Show the output of % locale and % sudo locale

=== Generally, this is how I configure locale under KDE:

% kcmshell5 formats

Configure main locale to en_IE, and currency to cs_CZ, everything else is "do not change".

Relogin.

% locale LANG=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_CTYPE=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_NUMERIC=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_TIME=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_COLLATE=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_MONETARY=cs_CZ.UTF-8 LC_MESSAGES=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_PAPER=en_IE.UTF-8 LC_NAME="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_ADDRESS="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_TELEPHONE="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_MEASUREMENT="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_IE.UTF-8" LC_ALL=

% sudo locale LC_CTYPE="POSIX" ...

% kdesu yast2 language

Set main language to English (US) -> Details -> en_IE. Yast complains about missing support and fallback to en_US, at the same time downloading spelling dictionaries for en_GB and en_IE.

Tick secondary languages (Czech, Ukrainian, Russian).

Press OK, Yast installs translations, dictionaries and configures /etc/sysconfig/language.

% sudo vim /etc/sysconfig/language

Manually fill in RC_* vars so they match the output of `locale` above.

% grep '^[^#]' /etc/sysconfig/language | grep RC RC_LANG="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_ALL="" RC_LC_MESSAGES="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_CTYPE="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_COLLATE="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_TIME="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_NUMERIC="en_IE.UTF-8" RC_LC_MONETARY="cs_CZ.UTF-8" RC_LC_PAPER="en_IE.UTF-8"

% grep '^[^#]' /etc/sysconfig/language | grep INS INSTALLED_LANGUAGES="cs_CZ,ru_RU,uk_UA,en_IE"

Relogin.

`sudo locale` output is now identical to `locale`, and the system contains desired spelling dictionaries.

I forgot to mention that you also want to set ROOT_USES_LANG=yes in /etc/sysconfig/language. I believe that's what you want. See its documentation in that file. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

gumb

18:36

On 10/08/2019 20:10, Oleksii Vilchanskyi wrote:

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I forgot to mention that you also want to set ROOT_USES_LANG=yes in /etc/sysconfig/language.

I believe that's what you want.

See its documentation in that file.

It was set to 'ctype', so I changed it to 'yes' and rebooted. No difference. On my other Leap 42.3 laptop that doesn't have these issues, it's also set to 'ctype'. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Knurpht-openSUSE

18:45

Op zaterdag 10 augustus 2019 20:36:50 CEST schreef gumb:

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On 10/08/2019 20:10, Oleksii Vilchanskyi wrote:

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I forgot to mention that you also want to set ROOT_USES_LANG=yes in /etc/sysconfig/language.

I believe that's what you want.

See its documentation in that file.

It was set to 'ctype', so I changed it to 'yes' and rebooted. No difference. On my other Leap 42.3 laptop that doesn't have these issues, it's also set to 'ctype'. Is yast2-trans-fr installed? If so, uninstall it.

-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

gumb

18:52

On 10/08/2019 20:45, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:

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Is yast2-trans-fr installed? If so, uninstall it.

See earlier in the thread. It was one of the packages I added after installation, and whereafter this problem began, but I soon uninstalled it again. The system has had several reboots since so I don't know where YaST is still pulling the French strings from, if not some cache somewhere. But it's the root console messages too that are in French, so I don't think it's a YaST-specific issue. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Dave Howorth

19:12

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 20:52:31 +0200 gumb wrote:

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On 10/08/2019 20:45, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:

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Is yast2-trans-fr installed? If so, uninstall it.

And why should the mere presence of a translation package affect anything?

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See earlier in the thread. It was one of the packages I added after installation, and whereafter this problem began, but I soon uninstalled it again. The system has had several reboots since so I don't know where YaST is still pulling the French strings from, if not some cache somewhere.

But it's the root console messages too that are in French, so I don't think it's a YaST-specific issue.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

7 Aug 7 Aug

09:30

On 06/08/2019 22.37, gumb wrote:

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New install, Leap 15.1.

Just getting basics set up. I generally use English (GB) for all system setup and desktop interface elements, with French added as a keyboard layout and/or for secondary language support. So after looking yesterday in YaST -> Software Management and viewing the Language tab, I scrolled down to fr and ticked 4 or 5 additional French packages, including yast2-trans-fr.

You probably switched the default language to French without noticing. Or there is a bug or strange behaviour when adding languages.

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Today when I start YaST, all the menus are in French. Ok, I can use it, but I prefer that it stays in English, for now at least. I just like to have French as a switchable standby for providing/receiving support, and/or for possible additional system users. So thinking it must be that yast2-trans-fr package I added which is responsible, I remove it again. When I start up YaST again, the menus are still in French, whereas the configuration options shown within each YaST category are in English for some and French for others.

When there is no translation for an item, it reverts to English. You can report a bug for that. Include screenshots, possibly better from the ncurses yast interface.

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I've looked in the root home, in /etc and cannot find where this is configured. At the bottom of the file /etc/sysconfig/language, is a setting described as 'List of installed language supports, use by YaST2'. It is set as INSTALLED_LANGUAGES="en_GB"

(which is wrong, you installed French as well)

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Everything else in the system is in English GB. Why is it overriding this in YaST, and where is this set?

The language is set in the environment, the "LANG" variable. You can display it with the locale command - mine says it goes in English: I have two scripts to select language for a program: Telcontar:~ # cat /usr/local/bin/ingles #!/bin/sh LANG=en_US.UTF-8 \ LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 \ DICTIONARY=english \ KDE_LANG=en_US.UTF-8 \ exec "$@" Telcontar:~ # Telcontar:~ # cat /usr/local/bin/espaniol #!/bin/sh LANG=es_ES.UTF-8 LC_ALL=es_ES.UTF-8 DICTIONARY=espanol KDE_LANG=es_ES exec "$@" Telcontar:~ # Thus I can do: Telcontar:~ # espaniol yast and I get it in Spanish: +++................... YaST2 - menu @ Telcontar ┌───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐ │ Centro de control de YaST │ └───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ ┌─────────────────────┐ ┌───────────────────────────────────────────────────┐ │Software ┬ │Actualización en línea ┬ │Sistema │ │Instalar / desinstalar software │ │Hardware │ │Actualización de FACTORY │ │Servicios de red ┴ │Comprobación de medios grabados │ │Seguridad y usuarios │ │Herramienta de configuración en línea ┴ │Virtualización │ │Productos adicionales │ └─────────────────────┘ └───────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ [Ayuda] [Ejecutar][Salir] F1 Ayuda F9 Salir ...................++- The language can be set for each user differently. There is a standard method that is known by few: editing file ~/.i18n For example: cer@Telcontar:~> cat .i18n # used by /etc/profile.d/lang.sh #CER - if it doesn't work edit /etc/profile.d/lang.sh, see Bugzilla 567324 LC_TIME=en_DK.UTF-8 LC_MONETARY=es_ES@euro LC_NUMERIC=es_ES@euro LC_PAPER=es_ES@euro LC_TELEPHONE=es_ES@euro LC_MEASUREMENT=es_ES@euro LC_NAME=es_ES@euro cer@Telcontar:~> which leaves the language as the default system "English", but alters some of the settings. I know this works right in the terminal and in XFCE, because I write bugzillas when it doesn't. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

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Carlos E. R.
Dave Howorth
gumb
Knurpht-openSUSE
Oleksii Vilchanskyi
Patrick Shanahan

[opensuse] YaST language confusion

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