Op maandag 10 september 2018 06:24:20 CEST schreef jbullock:

Andreas:

You are right. There's an opportunity here.

I wonder about enabling people with limited time, but deep, narrow package interest to help vet what they care about and provide those facts for the rest of us. I'd have done this myself several times, if I knew a distro-way to do it.

What if it were easy for Carlos to propagate his observation that "here be regressions" around tbird? Our other colleague would not have been so surprised.

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We probably should have made this more clear in the maintenance update descriptive text

I wonder if there isn't a broader "we" to leverage, if we could find a way for computer-literate users, doing something *using* OpenSuSE to contribute we'd get a lot more leverage on regressions and surprises.

I'm feeling like a tad more support and guidance could get us a lot. Release candidates seems a likely time: "Check these out and put your results here, by chunk, then we'll all know."

Eh, Ludwig Nussel posted a couple of times on the ML's to add experiences re. the release candidates for Leap 15 to a google spreadsheet. Which I did. To become part of a very small minority.

Not a "keep out" participation gate, but an invitation & guidance to help people contribute helpfully.

That's exactly what Ludwig's post was.

We could use a better way to propogate what Carlos knew: T-Bird works pretty well; there are some regressions re: plug-ins, with work-arounds, YMMV.

Problem with f.e. FF, Tb is that openSUSE follows upstream.

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Ultimately it is something that we are willing to accept from a security maintenance standpoint. 60 is the current ESR for

I suspect we'd knock down a lot of noise around inclusion / upgrade decisions, if the consequences were a bit easier to see for people who use the decisions, vs. monitor the lists & etc. all the time.

-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Hello, On 9/10/18 6:24 AM, jbullock wrote:

I wonder about enabling people with limited time, but deep, narrow package interest to help vet what they care about and provide those facts for the rest of us. I'd have done this myself several times, if I knew a distro-way to do it.

That is already available: Development repository, and the collective "Untested updates" repository. Bug tracking via bugzilla. openSUSE Maintenance is aware of reported regressions against unreleased updates, either directly or via the package maintainer.

What if it were easy for Carlos to propagate his observation that "here be regressions" around tbird? Our other colleague would not have been so surprised.

Bugzilla.. Another upstream regression has since been identified, triage, and the next steps determined: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1107772 I would like to stress the issue of the old add-on API being discontinued would not have prevented me from releasing Thunderbird 60, it would have merely made a bit more clear in the update information. Thunderbird 52 is EOL and yes, we follow upstream the upstream ESR releases as previously announced. Andreas -- Andreas Stieger Head of Product Security SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

<snip>

I would like to stress the issue of the old add-on API being discontinued would not have prevented me from releasing Thunderbird 60, it would have merely made a bit more clear in the update information. Thunderbird 52 is EOL and yes, we follow upstream the upstream ESR releases as previously announced.

Hello Andreas. I'm not objecting to the change. I suspect most folks are not.(*) My point is, people get less wee-wee'd up about changes, especially regressions, when they aren't surprised. If we already know, for some value of "we", can we make it easier for them to know, for some value of "them?" Clearly, I'm ignorant about what's available to look at. That's kind of the point. (*) Really. I was an old-time-y ReiserFS user, moved to ext(n) fairly early, because ReiserFS was unsupported. If nobody's picking that up, and I can't or won't it's unreasonable to expect someone else to be chained to eternal maintenance. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 09/11/2018 01:32 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

On 09/09/18 19:31, Andreas Stieger wrote:

...

Hello,

On 9/9/18 9:06 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Just a word of caution re the latest version (version 60) of Thunderbird which will be installed when you update Leap 15.0: you will lose most, if not all, of your existing Extensions and Theme -- by this I mean that they will become 'Incompatible with...'.

The "Theme" part of that is what poses the most difficult challenge. While 52.9 continue Gtk+2, 60 will only use Gtk+3. While there were 1000's of really good Gtk+2 themes, there are literally less than a dozen or so Gtk+3 themes too choose from and virtually all fail to control the input-box, icon width and treeview height resulting in default Gtk+3 widget sizes/spacing that are roughly 2X as tall and wide as the Gtk+2 variants. Granted, during development of Gtk+3, theme development was discouraged by the theme model being a black box and a complete moving target between 2.99 and roughly 3.24. As the theme API stabilized, independent theme development continued to be discouraged simply due to the complexity and size of an equivalent Gtk+3 theme verses it's Gtk+2 counterpart and the shift from the well-documented .gtkrc interface and then new Gtk+3 .css model. [Gtk+ Themeing](https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/theming.html) Hopefully as things progress we will have clear documentation for all features of the .css model that will allow easy fixes for dialogs, inputs and toolbars that no longer fit or toolbars that ellipsize off the right of the window hiding what used to be visible. Where a decade ago we had active sites and enthusiasts willing to roll up their sleeves and actively contribute themes (almost daily) to sites like gnome-look.org and deviantart.com, the original enthusiasts are now middle-age and there does not seem to be anyone following in their footsteps. Time will tell, but get ready for a shocker when you try and get Tbird 60 to display the same amount of information in the same screen space as 52.9 did by default. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 09/09/2018 10:01 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 09/09/2018 03.06, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Just a word of caution re the latest version (version 60) of Thunderbird which will be installed when you update Leap 15.0: you will lose most, if not all, of your existing Extensions and Theme -- by this I mean that they will become 'Incompatible with...'. You are right, I lost "Toggle word wrap"

I see that «"extensions.strictCompatibility" to "false"» might work, but I would prefer to individually re-enable an extension.

Agreed. Also, what steps do I need to take to find that variable, "extensions.strictCompatibility", and change it if so desired? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 09/10/2018 11:03 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* ken [09-10-18 10:58]:

...

On 09/09/2018 10:01 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 09/09/2018 03.06, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Just a word of caution re the latest version (version 60) of Thunderbird which will be installed when you update Leap 15.0: you will lose most, if not all, of your existing Extensions and Theme -- by this I mean that they will become 'Incompatible with...'. You are right, I lost "Toggle word wrap"

I see that «"extensions.strictCompatibility" to "false"» might work, but I would prefer to individually re-enable an extension. Agreed.

Also, what steps do I need to take to find that variable, "extensions.strictCompatibility", and change it if so desired? firefox, use for url: about:config search for "extensions.strict"

but mine which I have not changed is set to "false".

Mine too. Also, I thought this thread was about Thunderbird.  I'm actually glad it's about Firefox (?), because I've been having issues wtih the v.60 of Firefox which may be related.  I.e., the new FF seems to have horked NoScript: I can no longer set where a website can get its javascript from... which causes an entire website not to appear in FF.  Now my only recourse is to all ALL javascript for the current tab, which is insane for a number of reasons.  Anyone know a fix for that? Sorry if that question is OT.  If so, let me know and I'll start a new thread. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 10/09/2018 11.59, ken wrote:

On 09/10/2018 11:03 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* ken [09-10-18 10:58]:

...

On 09/09/2018 10:01 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 09/09/2018 03.06, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Just a word of caution re the latest version (version 60) of Thunderbird which will be installed when you update Leap 15.0: you will lose most, if not all, of your existing Extensions and Theme -- by this I mean that they will become 'Incompatible with...'. You are right, I lost "Toggle word wrap"

I see that «"extensions.strictCompatibility" to "false"» might work, but I would prefer to individually re-enable an extension. Agreed.

Also, what steps do I need to take to find that variable, "extensions.strictCompatibility", and change it if so desired?

Edit / Preferences / Advanced: General tab, then "Config editor" button at bottom left.

...

firefox, use for url: about:config search for "extensions.strict"

but mine which I have not changed is set to "false".

Mine too.

Also, I thought this thread was about Thunderbird. 

It is. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.0 (Legolas)) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org