into electronic streams flowing thru the cosmos On Thursday 26 October 2006 9:41 am, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

William Gallafent writes:

...

Hi,

Just a note to say thanks to those who organised the availability of this install medium at http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/openSUSE-10.2-Beta1/openSUS E-10.2-Beta1-DVD-x86_64.torrent

Glad to hear that it's welcome!

...

It's fairly torrential here already, saturating my home ADSL line in both directions :)

Please keep it running once it's downloaded! <snip> Question... how long are you guys taking to (dl)i.e. torrent this to your boxes? This copper wire dsl ( BellSouth) ''torrent" has been going since noon yesterday.. and still says it has mover than 7 hrs to go.. seems to me I could have downloaded this thing directly faster than that!

Just curious.. there seems to be a major problem w/ BS dsl in the whole state of Florida, which they once blamed on ( take your choice ) fiberglass wires , and distance from a tree that was designated the limit of the service ( I kid you not at all ) And currently they blame on weather, corruption of the modem ( they supply ) or maybe the wires or da dadah DAH! Linux ... somehow linux or the power of the wires is "frying the modem". Call me crazy, I don't buy it.. and in this case copper wired to the house is supposed to ensure that we are getting their fastest thru put ; we are in the center of the area they serve w/ this DSL system on our street. and as my results above show, w/ only my email account picking up the mail every 2 hrs during daytimes and 6 hrs at night, I I find it silly for them to blame the OS.. I don't see how anything is frying the modem, their favorite "fixit" idea is to unplug the modem for a few secconds and replug everything back in.. or get rid of our router and plug the computers directly into the modem, rather than into the router.. DuH! Don't see how that is going to speed things up any.. didn't help before when we just had the router and no modem needed.. strange., no? But as my friends on the list know, I'm not a hardware guru.. so I am willing to be enlightened by those who are.. ;) TIA -- j They that begin by burning books , end by burning men.

Question... how long are you guys taking to (dl)i.e. torrent this to your boxes?

I'm on cable internet... minimum guaranteed 12500kbps, and I was seeing DL rates up to 1.8G/s. I'm seeding now at 180k/s (my upstream is no where near my downstream). At those speeds it only took a couple hours to DL the entire set of isos (32 bit and 64 bit CDs and DVDs plus the addon CD). It was definitely faster for me to get the isos this way than to snag them by ftp. I plan on seeding for as long as is practical too So to answer your question... not very long at all :-)

Just curious.. there seems to be a major problem w/ BS dsl in the whole state of Florida, which they once blamed on ( take your choice )

DSL is limited by distance from the central office, and by the connection type within your house/business. The distance thing is roughly limited to 2km (with standard ADSL). Beyond that and you start getting so much signal degradation that it becomes unusable or unpractical. This may be the tree thing they were talking about... the tree being roughly 2km from the central office. Another possibility may be in your own house. If you installed your ADSL with a DIY kit from the ISP, you probably got splitters and a modem. if you have too many analog phones connected, and are using too many splitters/filters, you may be attenuating your ADSL signal strength so much that your performance/speed is non-existent. There's some interesting info on this here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adsl There may be some merit to the problem being on your side... but it's definitely NOT Linux. Linux cannot burn out your modem... or break the ADSL connection any more than any other OS. If Linux "broke the internet", then the internet would be in trouble since a considerable segment (more than half) the internet "runs" on Linux. C.

Well, that is ONLY true if all the line from the "central" is copper. Verizon and others have and are still running fiber, which removes ALL distance barriers.

Just an FYI.

True enough... :-) But the OP did say "in this case copper wired to the house". Do these other ISPs in the US actually run fiber to the houses? Or just to the central office? I know in Canada - with the exception of new buildings - most ADSL is copper wire (the original phone wiring) at the minimum from the central office to the customer. Same goes for where I live in Europe... ADSL is generally speaking... still copper wire for the last and most critical segment of the connection.. and also the most susceptible segment. Ooops... this is getting way off topic. This weekend I plan on trying out the Beta 1 of 10.2. I've got a nice squeaky clean partition ready to go... hope it's as good as people are indicating.... I've got confidence :-) C

Basil Chupin wrote:

Clayton wrote:

...

...

Well, that is ONLY true if all the line from the "central" is copper. Verizon and others have and are still running fiber, which removes ALL distance barriers.

Just an FYI.

True enough... :-) But the OP did say "in this case copper wired to the house".

Do these other ISPs in the US actually run fiber to the houses? Or just to the central office? I know in Canada - with the exception of new buildings - most ADSL is copper wire (the original phone wiring) at the minimum from the central office to the customer. Same goes for where I live in Europe... ADSL is generally speaking... still copper wire for the last and most critical segment of the connection.. and also the most susceptible segment.

Ooops... this is getting way off topic.

This weekend I plan on trying out the Beta 1 of 10.2. I've got a nice squeaky clean partition ready to go... hope it's as good as people are indicating.... I've got confidence :-)

Please tell me how you went when you try an install it from a DVD (if this is what you are going to be using).

I created a DVD from the 6 discs and 10.2 will NOT go past the first attempt to connect to the server to get the new updates and the source. Keeps coming up with the error message that there is "No products to register". Bloody stupid thing! Installing via the CDs is fine.

I think it is a little bug in the makeDVD script. Your installation wants to register a kind of installation, and the "product" description from the dvd install does not match the possible entries in the list of installations. Change the product description to that of the cd install. The same thing happened with the earlier alpha versions. Sandy -- List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com

Basil Chupin wrote:

Sandy Drobic wrote:

...

...

I created a DVD from the 6 discs and 10.2 will NOT go past the first attempt to connect to the server to get the new updates and the source. Keeps coming up with the error message that there is "No products to register". Bloody stupid thing! Installing via the CDs is fine.

I think it is a little bug in the makeDVD script. Your installation wants to register a kind of installation, and the "product" description from the dvd install does not match the possible entries in the list of installations. Change the product description to that of the cd install.

The same thing happened with the earlier alpha versions.

Thanks for this but t save me some time could you give me a pointer - a mail list perhaps - where this was mentioned so that I can correct the right bit of the script?

I'll dig into my archive, maybe I'll find it again... Okay, here it is: --------------------------------------------------------------------- Markus Meissner in suse-linux-e (18.05.2006 11:37): Registering and Online update problem Yes, you added the Add ON CD. This is fixed in an upcoming version of makeSUSEdvd.

...

Is there a solution to this state of affairs, I don't want to miss security updates?

Chek /var/lib/zypp/db/products and remogve the one with Add On product in it (if there are two). Or just add an update mirror by hand. Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- Hope it helps. Sandy -- List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com

Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The Friday 2006-10-27 at 20:26 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

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Thanks for this but t save me some time could you give me a pointer - a mail list perhaps - where this was mentioned so that I can correct the right bit of the script?

factory.

Thanks. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2006-10-27 at 22:13 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

factory.

As I already stated in earlier message, Thanks but I am buggerd if I can see anything there which solves the problem of the DVD installation showing that there is No products to register :-) .

I don't follow that list closely, but I think you have to go back to when 10.1 was in beta that this problem first started to appear. I remember seeing it. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFQgodtTMYHG2NR9URAu5qAJ9CTQ+D/8YafpIzF27i7m1kct3unwCdFaa3 keaxBpfgJFA07tbw4BYv5RY= =Ercz -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-10-28 at 00:02 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

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I don't follow that list closely, but I think you have to go back to when 10.1 was in beta that this problem first started to appear. I remember seeing it.

That far back, eh? :-) . OK, thanks I'll go looking :-) .

Yeap. I'm guessing that the problem you see is similar to what it was then. I think it was with beta 3, that the dvd had to be signed or something of the sort and the script broke. I didn't use it further, the final came out soon, I downloaded the dvd, so I didn't have use for the script again, and therefore I didn't follow much its development. I don't know if it was solved or not and how. But I remember people saying, with the final, that they had problems when trying to update, and it boiled down to the distro not being registered, which they couldn't because the dvd was produced by the script from the CDs, which is what you see, right? :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFQhnCtTMYHG2NR9URAkLzAJ9tOvltTUcqA6HvoKyISz5husuCkwCfVxT6 /8d+nLzFKMCikV81MDJgWtY= =vig3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-10-28 at 01:13 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

Now, why the heck should there be a product to register!? This is openSUSE, for heaven's sake!

That was explained when 10.1 came out. It is some kind of trick to accelerate YOU choosing a server for updates, but no personal info is transfered, unless you tell it to do so. Actually, there is a text file somewhere with what you send/sent. And, if you specify the server by hand, you don't need to register at all. (All that I say going from memory of the process for 10.1, some things may have changed/broken/repaired)

BTW, I am reinstalling the whole sheebang from scratch right now (from discs) because I wanted to install an app. which I forgot to do during the installation process and--guess what?--going to YAST and selecting Software Management results in NOTHING! A flash on the screen of Getting something or other and then...zilch, zero, nothing, nought, we're back to the YAST menu. So I am reinstalling just to make sure that I am not imagining all this.

It is a beta, after all... you are expected to report errors, you know ;-) The factory list is where most of these things are discused, some others in the opensuse list, and a few in the ...project list. The opensuse is the most confusing one, it more or less duplicates this one nowdays. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFQlAStTMYHG2NR9URAoofAJ40PcVg1CwdqjLE2jUXVQv0IrSeFwCfWvB7 p+NOLL+Uw9+fDuZAAHcZ/lI= =mf3A -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On 27/10/06 19:15, Basil Chupin wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote: <snip>

...

It is a beta, after all... you are expected to report errors, you know ;-)

Ummm, we are into beta 1 AFTER getting up to alpha *5*. It didn't jump from alpha 1 to beta 1 :-) .

"alpha" means "we know it's broken, find it so we can fix it" -- whereas "beta" means "we're not sure if it's still broken, find out if it works" :-)

On Friday 27 October 2006 22:44, Clayton wrote:

 Most noticeable is the new KMenu style (takes a lot of getting used to cuz it works so differently to anything KDE has ever had before)... and the zen tool... totally different look.  I still don't know how it performs compared to the 10.1 mess...

I'll probably wait for Beta2 or final. I've got that "10.1 mess" working pretty well now. I'd be interested in what you thought of the package groupings in yast. Did they go to the revised structure they were talking about? -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

Clayton wrote:

...

...

This weekend I plan on trying out the Beta 1 of 10.2. I've got a nice squeaky clean partition ready to go... hope it's as good as people are indicating.... I've got confidence :-)

Please tell me how you went when you try an install it from a DVD (if this is what you are going to be using).

I created a DVD from the 6 discs and 10.2 will NOT go past the first attempt to connect to the server to get the new updates and the source. Keeps coming up with the error message that there is "No products to register". Bloody stupid thing! Installing via the CDs is fine.

Welll I installed 10.2 Beta 1 last night (from DVD iso)... and it went mostly ok :-) I say mostly cuz part way through my router decided to go pout in a corner and stopped working for any OS that was attempting to connect. That caused some probs... but that wasn't related to the 10.2 install.

Otherwise... nicely done. It's well worth checking out. There are a lot of changes (visually) between 10.1 and 10.2. Most noticeable is the new KMenu style (takes a lot of getting used to cuz it works so differently to anything KDE has ever had before)... and the zen tool... totally different look. I still don't know how it performs compared to the 10.1 mess... from what I read... there is no comparison. :-) That's a good thing.

It appears to be yet another quality SUSE release, and hopefully one everyone is happy with it this time. Ha ha... there will always be something someone will find to grumble about. for me... It looks even more like an OS I'd unleash on my friends who are running scared (as the should) from Vista.

Anyway.... check it out if you can.

You don't say if you installed the 32-bit or the 64-bit version. I suspect that it is the 64-bit version because I cannot install the 32-bit version (from discs, but I cannot see how it would be different even if it came on a DVD). Assuming that it is the 64-bit version, what happens when you try and use Yast/YOU to look at what software is installed and also attempt an online update? Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

Assuming that it is the 64-bit version, what happens when you try and use Yast/YOU to look at what software is installed and also attempt an online update?

Well... at this point the Online Update is failing with a segfault... ---- /sbin/yast2 suse_register & Applications must not close shared connections - see dbus_connection_close() docs. This is a bug in the application. Applications must not close shared connections - see dbus_connection_close() docs. This is a bug in the application. Segmentation fault at PackageSystem.ycp:87 /sbin/yast2: line 267: 4934 Segmentation fault $ybindir/y2base $module "$@" "$SELECTED_GUI" "$Y2_GEOMETRY" $Y2QT_ARGS ---- I'll have to go poke around in the Factory list and maybe Bugzilla to see if this is a known issue. Maybe reinstall.. dunno... can't do it right now... have a few other things to do first.. maybe later this afternoon I can dig into the issue. C

Clayton wrote:

...

Well, that is ONLY true if all the line from the "central" is copper. Verizon and others have and are still running fiber, which removes ALL distance barriers.

Just an FYI.

True enough... :-) But the OP did say "in this case copper wired to the house".

Do these other ISPs in the US actually run fiber to the houses? Or just to the central office?

I know that when they were running fiber in my neighborhood (Georgia, USA) they were running it to the pole in the front yard. I asked the guy and he said it was the new fiber coming in. Now I didn't climb the pole to check it out, but I do know that it was copper from the pole to my house. -- Until later, Geoffrey Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin

Clayton wrote: [pruned]

This weekend I plan on trying out the Beta 1 of 10.2. I've got a nice squeaky clean partition ready to go... hope it's as good as people are indicating.... I've got confidence :-)

When you are installing be around and watch the screen re error messages, for example. One which keeps cropping up is something about 'application cannot 'do this' or something like it' followed by 'this is a bug in the application.' Error repeated quite a number of times. Also, you are asked to confirm that the installation will now go looking for hardware--options are to Confirm or Skip. I don't know what will happen if you aren't around to answer these Qs :-) . Cheers. -- I'm dangerous when I know what I'm doing.

Clayton wrote:

...

Question... how long are you guys taking to (dl)i.e. torrent this to your boxes?

I'm on cable internet... minimum guaranteed 12500kbps, and I was seeing DL rates up to 1.8G/s.

I'd be curious to know where you are and what provider guarantees a minimum service. -- Until later, Geoffrey Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin

Clayton wrote:

...

...

I'm on cable internet... minimum guaranteed 12500kbps, and I was seeing DL rates up to 1.8G/s.

I'd be curious to know where you are and what provider guarantees a minimum service.

I may have phrased that poorly... My ISP states that I have a 12500kbps up and 128kbps down. In reality they give me more. On a semi regular basis I see the top end of both up and down speeds increasing. I started out with 10000kbps and they slowly/incrementally bumped me (unofficially) to 12500. Then months later they rolled out an advertising campaign announcing that they were providing 12500 to everyone. Since then my top end download speed is slowly edging towards 20000kbps, and I expect to see an announcement sometime to the effect that they are officially offering 20000kbps.

So what I meant by stating a minimum of 12500 is simply that they advertise that's what you get, but in reality I get more.

The ISP is Casema (cable internet) in the Netherlands.

Thanks. My point was that there is not one provider in the USA that will guarantee any speed, cable or dsl. All they tell you is you can get 'up to' NNNN Mb. Thanks for the clarification. -- Until later, Geoffrey Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin

Ed, On Friday 27 October 2006 08:52, Ed McCanless wrote:

Geoffrey wrote:

...

...

In my experience, I've learned to expect 50% or less of what ISP's in the US advertise. It would definitely be enjoyable to get *more* than advertised.

Then choose a reputable ISP. Mine gives me all it promised. A few months ago spontaneously upped my out-bound rate by about 20% without changing the fees.

-- ED --

Randall Schulz

George, On Tuesday 31 October 2006 12:52, you wrote:

There's never a shortage of people willing to name a company which does NOT deliver on its promises. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to name this one, who apparently does.

You can pretty much tell by my email address. Sonic.net: http://www.sonic.net/ They offer service in urban areas of California, mainly. Randy

Ed McCanless wrote:

Geoffrey wrote:

...

Thanks. My point was that there is not one provider in the USA that will guarantee any speed, cable or dsl. All they tell you is you can get 'up to' NNNN Mb. Thanks for the clarification.

In my experience, I've learned to expect 50% or less of what ISP's in the US advertise. It would definitely be enjoyable to get *more* than advertised.

Wow, that's pretty poor. My experiences and what I hear from most folks is generally in the 80-90% range. Some folks report higher speeds then advertised, but these are few. -- Until later, Geoffrey Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin

Well, of course I can't tell you what is wrong but I met an interesting event a few weeks back. My DSL connection was really slow. Finally my daughter called Verizon and, since she didn't have a clue what they were talking about, put me on the line. They had me hook my machine direcly to the cable modem and sign on to their speed test site. The speed went to full speed immediately. I could not believe it but there was no doubt it was my router. I got a new router and my daughter then asked me, "Could it be because Conner (my grandson) pulled it onto the floor a couple of times?" So, don't rule out that it could be your router. Hook your computer directly to the modem and test the speed. You, too, might be surprised! Chuck

Question... how long are you guys taking to (dl)i.e. torrent this to your boxes? This copper wire dsl ( BellSouth) ''torrent" has been going since noon yesterday.. and still says it has mover than 7 hrs to go.. seems to me I could have downloaded this thing directly faster than that!

Just curious.. there seems to be a major problem w/ BS dsl in the whole state of Florida, which they once blamed on ( take your choice ) fiberglass wires , and distance from a tree that was designated the limit of the service ( I kid you not at all ) And currently they blame on weather, corruption of the modem ( they supply ) or maybe the wires or da dadah DAH! Linux ... somehow linux or the power of the wires is "frying the modem". Call me crazy, I don't buy it.. and in this case copper wired to the house is supposed to ensure that we are getting their fastest thru put ; we are in the center of the area they serve w/ this DSL system on our street. and as my results above show, w/ only my email account picking up the mail every 2 hrs during daytimes and 6 hrs at night, I I find it silly for them to blame the OS.. I don't see how anything is frying the modem, their favorite "fixit" idea is to unplug the modem for a few secconds and replug everything back in.. or get rid of our router and plug the computers directly into the modem, rather than into the router.. DuH! Don't see how that is going to speed things up any.. didn't help before when we just had the router and no modem needed..

jfweber@gilweber.com wrote:

Bellsouth has a Windows mentality , tho we are gradually winning some of the techs over. The company policy is to treat all complaints as windows problems.

Ours when checked by plugging into their modem doesn't get more than a couple of KBS faster. As I said, 10LBS up and 7 up seems way too slow for anything that calls itself DSL.

I am not certain of this, but I think slow DSL may be a Bell South specialty. I've experienced similar problems in NC. As to connecting with Linux, I couldn't even get them to admit it was possible. -- ED --