[opensuse] 15.2 -- What is pipewire and how do I disable it?

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[opensuse] 15.2 Firefox dependence...

David C. Rankin

28 Sep 2020 28 Sep '20

07:28

All, I look at 15.2 and I have this pipewire process at the top of top. I didn't start it, nor did I ask for it to be started. I check the systemd services and there is no pipewire service -- but that process is running away. I know it is some type of media service I don't want or need. How do I turn it off? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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David C. Rankin

28 Sep 28 Sep

07:39

On 9/28/20 2:28 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

All,

I look at 15.2 and I have this pipewire process at the top of top. I didn't start it, nor did I ask for it to be started. I check the systemd services and there is no pipewire service -- but that process is running away.

I know it is some type of media service I don't want or need. How do I turn it off?

Moreover, it appears to be a dependency of Firefox -- attempting to remove pipewire also wants to remove: MozillaFirefox MozillaFirefox-translations-common But what is it doing running and gobbling up virtual memory when firefox hasn't even been started? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

07:45

David C. Rankin wrote:

...

On 9/28/20 2:28 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:

...
All,

I look at 15.2 and I have this pipewire process at the top of top. I didn't start it, nor did I ask for it to be started. I check the systemd services and there is no pipewire service -- but that process is running away.

I know it is some type of media service I don't want or need. How do I turn it off?

Moreover, it appears to be a dependency of Firefox -- attempting to remove pipewire also wants to remove:

MozillaFirefox MozillaFirefox-translations-common

But what is it doing running and gobbling up virtual memory when firefox hasn't even been started?

It's the default alsa output. See /etc/alsa/conf.d/pipewire.conf - not that I understand much of it. If I try to remove pipewire, not only firefox, but also chromium and flatpak are listed for removal. IOW, I think you do need it :-) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.1°C) http://www.cloudsuisse.com/ - your owncloud, hosted in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Frans de Boer

07:47

On 28-09-2020 09:39, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

On 9/28/20 2:28 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:

...
All,

I look at 15.2 and I have this pipewire process at the top of top. I didn't start it, nor did I ask for it to be started. I check the systemd services and there is no pipewire service -- but that process is running away.

I know it is some type of media service I don't want or need. How do I turn it off?

Moreover, it appears to be a dependency of Firefox -- attempting to remove pipewire also wants to remove:

MozillaFirefox MozillaFirefox-translations-common

But what is it doing running and gobbling up virtual memory when firefox hasn't even been started?

Look at pipewire.org. Seems to be another "core" building block for the sake of security. --- Frans. -- A: Yes, just like that A: Ja, net zo Q: Oh, Just like reading a book backwards Q: Oh, net als een boek achterstevoren lezen A: Because it upsets the natural flow of a story A: Omdat het de natuurlijke gang uit het verhaal haalt Q: Why is top-posting annoying? Q: Waarom is Top-posting zo irritant? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Bengt Gördén

07:55

On 2020-09-28 09:47, Frans de Boer wrote:

...

Look at pipewire.org. Seems to be another "core" building block for the sake of security.

It's the new pulseaudio, including video. It should/may bring audio and video together as when you work with jackd for audio. Good or bad I don't know. I've been using jackd for decades in my home studio. I can understand the motivation behind pipewire as jackd has solved many problems for us who work with realtime audio. Probably the same for video. This came to linux-audio-list just the other week: https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2020/09/04/pipewire-late-summer-update-2020/ -- /bengan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

08:06

On 9/28/20 2:55 AM, Bengt Gördén wrote:

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On 2020-09-28 09:47, Frans de Boer wrote:

...
Look at pipewire.org. Seems to be another "core" building block for the sake of security.

It's the new pulseaudio, including video. It should/may bring audio and video together as when you work with jackd for audio. Good or bad I don't know. I've been using jackd for decades in my home studio. I can understand the motivation behind pipewire as jackd has solved many problems for us who work with realtime audio. Probably the same for video.

This came to linux-audio-list just the other week: https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2020/09/04/pipewire-late-summer-update-2020/

Hmmm, All good info, but pipewire upstream provides pipewire.service as a systemd service to allow you to enable/disable it. Firefox does not require it as a dependency, so this is a choice openSUSE has made. See : https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PipeWire -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

09:19

David C. Rankin wrote:

...

All good info, but pipewire upstream provides pipewire.service as a systemd service to allow you to enable/disable it. Firefox does not require it as a dependency, so this is a choice openSUSE has made.

On Leap 15.2, both firefox and chromium require libpipewire - I don't know if that is just our packaging though. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.7°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Rosenauer

09:39

Am 28.09.20 um 11:19 schrieb Per Jessen:

...

David C. Rankin wrote:

...
All good info, but pipewire upstream provides pipewire.service as a systemd service to allow you to enable/disable it. Firefox does not require it as a dependency, so this is a choice openSUSE has made.

On Leap 15.2, both firefox and chromium require libpipewire - I don't know if that is just our packaging though.

as I understood pipewire is required (at least) for WebRTC screensharing when Firefox is running on wayland. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

19:45

On 9/28/20 4:39 AM, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...

...
On Leap 15.2, both firefox and chromium require libpipewire - I don't know if that is just our packaging though. as I understood pipewire is required (at least) for WebRTC screensharing when Firefox is running on wayland.

That may be, if you use any of that, but pipewire should not be bundled as a dependency of firefox. firefox works just fine without it. Plays video and audio just fine, etc.. This should definitely be one of those areas where the user has a choice. If the user needs all that fluff and wants pipewire to handle it, then they can certainly load pipewire. But for the user that doesn't use any of that, pipewire should not be up and running by default with no way to turn it off and now way to uninstall the openSUSE version pipewire without it also wanting to uninstall Firefox. Remember, a new "feature" to some is a "bug" to others *if it can't be turned off*.... -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Dave Howorth

19:52

On Mon, 28 Sep 2020 14:45:32 -0500 "David C. Rankin" wrote:

...

On 9/28/20 4:39 AM, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...
...
On Leap 15.2, both firefox and chromium require libpipewire - I don't know if that is just our packaging though. as I understood pipewire is required (at least) for WebRTC screensharing when Firefox is running on wayland.

That may be, if you use any of that, but pipewire should not be bundled as a dependency of firefox. firefox works just fine without it. Plays video and audio just fine, etc..

This should definitely be one of those areas where the user has a choice. If the user needs all that fluff and wants pipewire to handle it, then they can certainly load pipewire. But for the user that doesn't use any of that, pipewire should not be up and running by default with no way to turn it off and now way to uninstall the openSUSE version pipewire without it also wanting to uninstall Firefox.

Remember, a new "feature" to some is a "bug" to others *if it can't be turned off*....

Have you reported the bug yet? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Knurpht-openSUSE

19:57

Op maandag 28 september 2020 21:45:32 CEST schreef David C. Rankin:

...

That may be, if you use any of that, but pipewire should not be bundled as a dependency of firefox. firefox works just fine without it. Plays video and audio just fine, etc.. WebRTC is not about that. Try video-conferencing, f.e. meet2.opensuse.org

-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

7 Oct 7 Oct

20:01

On 9/28/20 2:57 PM, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:

...

Op maandag 28 september 2020 21:45:32 CEST schreef David C. Rankin:

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That may be, if you use any of that, but pipewire should not be bundled as a dependency of firefox. firefox works just fine without it. Plays video and audio just fine, etc.. WebRTC is not about that. Try video-conferencing, f.e. meet2.opensuse.org

I don't video conference from VM's, I just want it turned off so it's not wasting CPU or virtual memory on these limited memory installs. The option is to blow away the openSUSE firefox and pipewire and simply install firefox directly from mozilla -- which does not have nor require pipewire. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

20:45

* David C. Rankin [10-07-20 16:02]:

...

On 9/28/20 2:57 PM, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:

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Op maandag 28 september 2020 21:45:32 CEST schreef David C. Rankin:

...
That may be, if you use any of that, but pipewire should not be bundled as a dependency of firefox. firefox works just fine without it. Plays video and audio just fine, etc.. WebRTC is not about that. Try video-conferencing, f.e. meet2.opensuse.org

I don't video conference from VM's, I just want it turned off so it's not wasting CPU or virtual memory on these limited memory installs.

The option is to blow away the openSUSE firefox and pipewire and simply install firefox directly from mozilla -- which does not have nor require pipewire.

so you are free to do it and capable. Just make a decision! -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

8 Oct 8 Oct

02:39

On 10/7/20 3:45 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

so you are free to do it and capable. Just make a decision!

Obviously... The issue is why does 15.2 behave differently w.r.t. pipewire than tumbleweed and why is pipewire not a recommends? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Simon Lees

06:08

On 10/8/20 1:09 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:

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On 10/7/20 3:45 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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so you are free to do it and capable. Just make a decision!

Obviously...

The issue is why does 15.2 behave differently w.r.t. pipewire than tumbleweed and why is pipewire not a recommends?

I guess because Pipewire is new and Tumbleweed will regularly carry new features that SLE does not, especially as we get further and further from the point when SLE / Leap 15.0 were first branched, when SLE / Leap / Jump is created you can expect them to be basically the same as Tumbleweed then the difference will grow again. As for why pipewire is required, try "rpm -q --whatrequires pipewire" and it should tell you, on my Jump and Tumbleweed systems nothing is requiring it currently. Once you confirm what actually requires pipewire (as opposed to libpipewire) we might be able to answer the why. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

Andrei Borzenkov

05:41

07.10.2020 23:01, David C. Rankin пишет:

...

On 9/28/20 2:57 PM, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:

...
Op maandag 28 september 2020 21:45:32 CEST schreef David C. Rankin:

...
That may be, if you use any of that, but pipewire should not be bundled as a dependency of firefox. firefox works just fine without it. Plays video and audio just fine, etc.. WebRTC is not about that. Try video-conferencing, f.e. meet2.opensuse.org

I don't video conference from VM's, I just want it turned off so it's not wasting CPU or virtual memory on these limited memory installs.

The option is to blow away the openSUSE firefox

I have 15.2 with openSUSE firefox and pipewire is installed but not started. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Rosenauer

07:12

Am 08.10.20 um 07:41 schrieb Andrei Borzenkov:

...

07.10.2020 23:01, David C. Rankin пишет:

...
On 9/28/20 2:57 PM, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:

...
Op maandag 28 september 2020 21:45:32 CEST schreef David C. Rankin:

...
That may be, if you use any of that, but pipewire should not be bundled as a dependency of firefox. firefox works just fine without it. Plays video and audio just fine, etc.. WebRTC is not about that. Try video-conferencing, f.e. meet2.opensuse.org

I don't video conference from VM's, I just want it turned off so it's not wasting CPU or virtual memory on these limited memory installs.

The option is to blow away the openSUSE firefox

I have 15.2 with openSUSE firefox and pipewire is installed but not started.

same here. The systemd units (including the socket one) are not activated at all. I cannot tell which package/post-install, session handler may have activated on other systems. As mentioned somewhere it's apparently mandatory if wayland is in use which is not the case for me but others did not explicitely state that in the reports here I think? Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Andrei Borzenkov

17:06

08.10.2020 10:12, Wolfgang Rosenauer пишет:

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Am 08.10.20 um 07:41 schrieb Andrei Borzenkov:

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07.10.2020 23:01, David C. Rankin пишет:

...
On 9/28/20 2:57 PM, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:

...
Op maandag 28 september 2020 21:45:32 CEST schreef David C. Rankin:

...
That may be, if you use any of that, but pipewire should not be bundled as a dependency of firefox. firefox works just fine without it. Plays video and audio just fine, etc.. WebRTC is not about that. Try video-conferencing, f.e. meet2.opensuse.org

I don't video conference from VM's, I just want it turned off so it's not wasting CPU or virtual memory on these limited memory installs.

The option is to blow away the openSUSE firefox

I have 15.2 with openSUSE firefox and pipewire is installed but not started.

same here.

The systemd units (including the socket one) are not activated at all. I cannot tell which package/post-install, session handler may have activated on other systems. As mentioned somewhere it's apparently mandatory if wayland is in use which is not the case for me but others did not explicitely state that in the reports here I think?

15.2 Xfce/X11, TW GNOME/Wayland, no pipewire on both. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

10 Oct 10 Oct

08:39

On 10/8/20 12:41 AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...

I have 15.2 with openSUSE firefox and pipewire is installed but not started.

How do I do that? If I boot 15.2, even without Firefox running, pipwire is churning away. I just want to know how to turn it off (without using kill) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

28 Sep 28 Sep

20:10

* David C. Rankin [09-28-20 15:48]:

...

On 9/28/20 4:39 AM, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...
...
On Leap 15.2, both firefox and chromium require libpipewire - I don't know if that is just our packaging though. as I understood pipewire is required (at least) for WebRTC screensharing when Firefox is running on wayland.

That may be, if you use any of that, but pipewire should not be bundled as a dependency of firefox. firefox works just fine without it. Plays video and audio just fine, etc..

This should definitely be one of those areas where the user has a choice. If the user needs all that fluff and wants pipewire to handle it, then they can certainly load pipewire. But for the user that doesn't use any of that, pipewire should not be up and running by default with no way to turn it off and now way to uninstall the openSUSE version pipewire without it also wanting to uninstall Firefox.

Remember, a new "feature" to some is a "bug" to others *if it can't be turned off*....

running Tw/plasma5/kde5 have pipewire/libpipewire.. installed but is not and to my knowledge has never been running. I do use firefox/seamonkey/waterfox/w3m/elinks, but no pipewire and: # zypper -v rm pipewire Verbosity: 2 Non-option program arguments: 'pipewire' Initializing Target Reading installed packages... Force resolution: Yes Selecting 'pipewire-0.3.11-1.1.x86_64' for removal. Resolving package dependencies... Force resolution: Yes The following 3 packages are going to be REMOVED: pipewire 0.3.11-1.1 pipewire-modules 0.3.11-1.1 pipewire-spa-plugins-0_2 0.3.11-1.1 3 packages to remove. After the operation, 3.6 MiB will be freed. Continue? [y/n/v/...? shows all options] (y): what you have is apparently your own. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

20:18

On 28/09/2020 15:45, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

On 9/28/20 4:39 AM, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...
...
On Leap 15.2, both firefox and chromium require libpipewire - I don't know if that is just our packaging though. as I understood pipewire is required (at least) for WebRTC screensharing when Firefox is running on wayland.

That may be, if you use any of that, but pipewire should not be bundled as a dependency of firefox. firefox works just fine without it. Plays video and audio just fine, etc..

This should definitely be one of those areas where the user has a choice. If the user needs all that fluff and wants pipewire to handle it, then they can certainly load pipewire. But for the user that doesn't use any of that, pipewire should not be up and running by default with no way to turn it off and now way to uninstall the openSUSE version pipewire without it also wanting to uninstall Firefox.

Remember, a new "feature" to some is a "bug" to others *if it can't be turned off*....

+1 Have you considered unloading pipewire and the 'suse" version of Firefox then loading Firefox from the Mozilla repository, built without suse. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin

7 Oct 7 Oct

20:09

On 9/28/20 3:18 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

On 28/09/2020 15:45, David C. Rankin wrote:

...
On 9/28/20 4:39 AM, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...
...
On Leap 15.2, both firefox and chromium require libpipewire - I don't know if that is just our packaging though. as I understood pipewire is required (at least) for WebRTC screensharing when Firefox is running on wayland.

That may be, if you use any of that, but pipewire should not be bundled as a dependency of firefox. firefox works just fine without it. Plays video and audio just fine, etc..

This should definitely be one of those areas where the user has a choice. If the user needs all that fluff and wants pipewire to handle it, then they can certainly load pipewire. But for the user that doesn't use any of that, pipewire should not be up and running by default with no way to turn it off and now way to uninstall the openSUSE version pipewire without it also wanting to uninstall Firefox.

Remember, a new "feature" to some is a "bug" to others *if it can't be turned off*....

+1

Have you considered unloading pipewire and the 'suse" version of Firefox then loading Firefox from the Mozilla repository, built without suse.

That is likely what I will try before going to the mozila ftp site. I try and keep the VMs pure openSUSE. Up to the last few weeks 15.2 either didn't have pipewire or it wasn't being started by default. Now it takes more resources than Xorg -- even though there is no firefox started or running. It openSUSE bundled pipewire with the pipewire.service from upstream -- there would be no problem, I could simply stop and disable the serive, but openSUSE omits that file and pipewire is simply spinning away. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

20:17

On 07/10/2020 22.09, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

On 9/28/20 3:18 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

That is likely what I will try before going to the mozila ftp site. I try and keep the VMs pure openSUSE. Up to the last few weeks 15.2 either didn't have pipewire or it wasn't being started by default.

Now it takes more resources than Xorg -- even though there is no firefox started or running.

It openSUSE bundled pipewire with the pipewire.service from upstream -- there would be no problem, I could simply stop and disable the serive, but openSUSE omits that file and pipewire is simply spinning away.

You were told it is pipewire.socket -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

David C. Rankin

11 Oct 11 Oct

06:43

On 10/7/20 3:17 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

You were told it is pipewire.socket

Now go try and interface with that per-user target. Let me know if you are able to and can do it in less than a 90-character command line.... Disabling on 15.2 Breaks Firefox. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.

Per Jessen

08:17

David C. Rankin wrote:

...

On 10/7/20 3:17 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
You were told it is pipewire.socket

Now go try and interface with that per-user target. Let me know if you are able to and can do it in less than a 90-character command line.... Disabling on 15.2 Breaks Firefox.

I'm not totally sure I know what you mean, but here on my 15.2 laptop, pipewire.socket _is_ disabled: per@office68:~> systemctl --user status pipewire.socket ● pipewire.socket - Multimedia System Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/pipewire.socket; disabled; vendor preset: disabled) Active: inactive (dead) Listen: /run/user/1000/pipewire-0 (Stream) I may have done that myself as a test, can't remember :-) Fwiw - per@office68:~> systemctl --user enable --now pipewire.socket Created symlink /home/per/.config/systemd/user/sockets.target.wants/pipewire.socket → /usr/lib/systemd/user/pipewire.socket. per@office68:~> systemctl --user status pipewire.socket ● pipewire.socket - Multimedia System Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/pipewire.socket; enabled; vendor preset: disabled) Active: active (listening) since Sun 2020-10-11 10:08:44 CEST; 19s ago Listen: /run/user/1000/pipewire-0 (Stream) per@office68:~> systemctl --user disable --now pipewire.socket Removed /home/per/.config/systemd/user/sockets.target.wants/pipewire.socket. per@office68:~> systemctl --user status pipewire.socket ● pipewire.socket - Multimedia System Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/pipewire.socket; disabled; vendor preset: disabled) Active: inactive (dead) since Sun 2020-10-11 10:09:19 CEST; 2s ago Listen: /run/user/1000/pipewire-0 (Stream) I count about 45-46 characters in those systemctl enable/disable. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (8.7°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

8 Oct 8 Oct

08:25

David C. Rankin wrote:

...

Now it takes more resources than Xorg -- even though there is no firefox started or running.

It openSUSE bundled pipewire with the pipewire.service from upstream -- there would be no problem, I could simply stop and disable the serive, but openSUSE omits that file and pipewire is simply spinning away.

Looking at my newly installed 15.2 system, the pipewire package comes with both pipewire.service and pipewire.socket: toshiba1:~ # l /usr/lib/systemd/user/pipewire.* -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 819 Aug 7 00:41 /usr/lib/systemd/user/pipewire.service -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 130 Jun 10 11:53 /usr/lib/systemd/user/pipewire.socket ISTR a posting saying pipewire is a user service, which fits with those two files. So, let's see: per@toshiba1:~> systemctl --user status pipewire.socket ● pipewire.socket - Multimedia System Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/pipewire.socket; enabled; vendor preset: disabled) Active: active (listening) since Mon 2020-10-05 21:15:35 CEST; 2 days ago Listen: /run/user/1000/pipewire-0 (Stream) Yup, all present and accounted for. To stop that socket, something like this might do the trick: systemctl --user disable --now pipewire.socket -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.4°C) http://www.cloudsuisse.com/ - your owncloud, hosted in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

08:33

Per Jessen wrote:

...

So, let's see:

per@toshiba1:~> systemctl --user status pipewire.socket ● pipewire.socket - Multimedia System Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/pipewire.socket; enabled; vendor preset: disabled) Active: active (listening) since Mon 2020-10-05 21:15:35 CEST; 2 days ago Listen: /run/user/1000/pipewire-0 (Stream)

Btw, much the same on my TW machine: per@office25:~> systemctl --user status pipewire.socket ● pipewire.socket - Multimedia System Loaded: loaded (/usr/lib/systemd/user/pipewire.socket; enabled; vendor preset: disabled) Active: active (listening) since Wed 2020-09-02 18:46:05 CEST; 1 months 5 days ago Triggers: ● pipewire.service Listen: /run/user/1000/pipewire-0 (Stream) CGroup: /user.slice/user-1000.slice/user@1000.service/pipewire.socket -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.6°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Simon Lees

29 Sep 29 Sep

10:08

On 9/29/20 5:15 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

On 9/28/20 4:39 AM, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...
...
On Leap 15.2, both firefox and chromium require libpipewire - I don't know if that is just our packaging though. as I understood pipewire is required (at least) for WebRTC screensharing when Firefox is running on wayland.

That may be, if you use any of that, but pipewire should not be bundled as a dependency of firefox. firefox works just fine without it. Plays video and audio just fine, etc..

This should definitely be one of those areas where the user has a choice. If the user needs all that fluff and wants pipewire to handle it, then they can certainly load pipewire. But for the user that doesn't use any of that, pipewire should not be up and running by default with no way to turn it off and now way to uninstall the openSUSE version pipewire without it also wanting to uninstall Firefox.

Remember, a new "feature" to some is a "bug" to others *if it can't be turned off*....

Unfortunately with binary distro's life isn't quite that simple. If someone wants to use something that would require firefox to link against libpipewire then everyone needs libpipewire on there system. That does not mean that everyone needs pipewire installed and running, atleast from what I can see on tumbleweed libpipewire only recommends having pipewire installed which is correct. On both my current systems I can uninstall pipewire but I only have tumbleweed and jump installed at the moment. If Leap is different it probably means there is a requires pipewire where there should be a requires libpipewire or a recommends pipewire instead. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

Carlos E. R.

10:33

On 29/09/2020 12.08, Simon Lees wrote:

...

On both my current systems I can uninstall pipewire but I only have tumbleweed and jump installed at the moment. If Leap is different it probably means there is a requires pipewire where there should be a requires libpipewire or a recommends pipewire instead.

I don't have it installed, maybe it only applies to Leap 15.2 :-? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

David C. Rankin

7 Oct 7 Oct

20:13

On 9/29/20 5:33 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

I don't have it installed, maybe it only applies to Leap 15.2 :-?

The problem is only with 15.2 -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.

David C. Rankin

20:12

On 9/29/20 5:08 AM, Simon Lees wrote:

...

On both my current systems I can uninstall pipewire but I only have tumbleweed and jump installed at the moment. If Leap is different it probably means there is a requires pipewire where there should be a requires libpipewire or a recommends pipewire instead.

That is the case Simon, On 15.2 it is spinning away with no way to stop it or uninstall it without uninstalling firefox as well. It being a recommends would be fine. On 15.2 I disable recommends with no-recommends in the config file, but pipewire was still installed and started on 15.2. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.

Carlos E. R.

20:18

On 07/10/2020 22.12, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

On 9/29/20 5:08 AM, Simon Lees wrote:

...
On both my current systems I can uninstall pipewire but I only have tumbleweed and jump installed at the moment. If Leap is different it probably means there is a requires pipewire where there should be a requires libpipewire or a recommends pipewire instead.

That is the case Simon,

On 15.2 it is spinning away with no way to stop it or uninstall it without uninstalling firefox as well.

It being a recommends would be fine. On 15.2 I disable recommends with no-recommends in the config file, but pipewire was still installed and started on 15.2.

Bann/taboo it. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Simon Lees

8 Oct 8 Oct

06:10

On 10/8/20 6:48 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 07/10/2020 22.12, David C. Rankin wrote:

...
On 9/29/20 5:08 AM, Simon Lees wrote:

...
On both my current systems I can uninstall pipewire but I only have tumbleweed and jump installed at the moment. If Leap is different it probably means there is a requires pipewire where there should be a requires libpipewire or a recommends pipewire instead.

That is the case Simon,

On 15.2 it is spinning away with no way to stop it or uninstall it without uninstalling firefox as well.

It being a recommends would be fine. On 15.2 I disable recommends with no-recommends in the config file, but pipewire was still installed and started on 15.2.

Bann/taboo it.

Not the best idea, if something such as firefox does currently require it you might block its updates. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

Carlos E. R.

10:49

On 08/10/2020 08.10, Simon Lees wrote:

...

On 10/8/20 6:48 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
On 07/10/2020 22.12, David C. Rankin wrote:

...
On 9/29/20 5:08 AM, Simon Lees wrote:

...
On both my current systems I can uninstall pipewire but I only have tumbleweed and jump installed at the moment. If Leap is different it probably means there is a requires pipewire where there should be a requires libpipewire or a recommends pipewire instead.

That is the case Simon,

On 15.2 it is spinning away with no way to stop it or uninstall it without uninstalling firefox as well.

It being a recommends would be fine. On 15.2 I disable recommends with no-recommends in the config file, but pipewire was still installed and started on 15.2.

Bann/taboo it.

Not the best idea, if something such as firefox does currently require it you might block its updates.

It should only affect pipewire, not firefox. If it is a dependency, of course it will complain, perhaps "can not install firefox", and user has to ignore the conflict manually. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Dave Howorth

28 Sep 28 Sep

10:32

On Mon, 28 Sep 2020 11:19:03 +0200 Per Jessen wrote:

...

David C. Rankin wrote:

...
All good info, but pipewire upstream provides pipewire.service as a systemd service to allow you to enable/disable it. Firefox does not require it as a dependency, so this is a choice openSUSE has made.

On Leap 15.2, both firefox and chromium require libpipewire - I don't know if that is just our packaging though.

I wasn't aware of pipewire before this thread, so thanks for the heads-up everybody. Reading the arch stuff and that link Bengt posted, it looks like pipewire is rather new and is something we might expect to find in TW but not yet in Leap. I'd suggest bug reporting it, David, and seeing what the response is. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Peter Suetterlin

14:59

Dave Howorth wrote:

...

I wasn't aware of pipewire before this thread, so thanks for the heads-up everybody.

Reading the arch stuff and that link Bengt posted, it looks like pipewire is rather new and is something we might expect to find in TW but not yet in Leap.

I'd suggest bug reporting it, David, and seeing what the response is.

Well, on my TW it's not installed/needed. libpipewire *is* installed, but woodstock:~% rpm -q --whatrequires libpipewire-0.3.so.0\(\)\(64bit\) krfb-20.08.1-1.1.x86_64 Then again, I use Vivaldi, so no Chrome, and only an old firefox-esr are installed. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

20:15

On 28/09/2020 04:06, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

All good info, but pipewire upstream provides pipewire.service as a systemd service to allow you to enable/disable it. Firefox does not require it as a dependency, so this is a choice openSUSE has made.

More and more I'm seeing things like this, cutting off options, the people at suse/OpenSuse making binding decisions that some of us think should be options. In this case I'd like to choose how my audio works. Much more of this and I'll be looking at alternatives to suse. It's been and long run and enjoyable, but more and more there are things I'm simply not comfortable with. This is the sort of things we'd expect from Microsoft, treating us as incapable and making binding decisions for us. -- “Reality is so complex, we must move away from dogma, whether it’s conspiracy theories or free-market,” -- James Glattfelder. http://jth.ch/jbg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Rosenauer

29 Sep 29 Sep

07:12

Hi, Am 28.09.20 um 22:15 schrieb Anton Aylward:

...

On 28/09/2020 04:06, David C. Rankin wrote:

...
All good info, but pipewire upstream provides pipewire.service as a systemd service to allow you to enable/disable it. Firefox does not require it as a dependency, so this is a choice openSUSE has made.

More and more I'm seeing things like this, cutting off options, the people at suse/OpenSuse making binding decisions that some of us think should be options. In this case I'd like to choose how my audio works.

It's a choice we have made for openSUSE indeed. Please note that wayland is available on openSUSE as a supported option AFAIK. Because of this our Firefox package supports X and wayland at the same time based on runtime configuration. Firefox also supports WebRTC which is today quite important. But for Firefox to be able to support screensharing under a Wayland session it requires pipewire. That is not an openSUSE decision but an upstream one and seems to be the solution the Linux community has chosen. First of all requiring libpipewire is not your issue. Make sure that pipewire is not used if you don't like it on your system. Removing the library is not the solution.

...

Much more of this and I'll be looking at alternatives to suse. It's been and long run and enjoyable, but more and more there are things I'm simply not comfortable with. This is the sort of things we'd expect from Microsoft, treating us as incapable and making binding decisions for us.

If you don't like wayland and all that stuff you can move to an alternative if you find it and find that they will most likely move as well like it happened with pulseaudio, systemd and all the other things the greater community (and especially RedHat as the most important driver for such things) decided. Stop blaming this decision for Firefox because there is no other reasonable one. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

07:57

On 29/09/2020 09.12, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...

Hi,

Am 28.09.20 um 22:15 schrieb Anton Aylward:

...
On 28/09/2020 04:06, David C. Rankin wrote:

...
All good info, but pipewire upstream provides pipewire.service as a systemd service to allow you to enable/disable it. Firefox does not require it as a dependency, so this is a choice openSUSE has made.

More and more I'm seeing things like this, cutting off options, the people at suse/OpenSuse making binding decisions that some of us think should be options. In this case I'd like to choose how my audio works.

It's a choice we have made for openSUSE indeed. Please note that wayland is available on openSUSE as a supported option AFAIK. Because of this our Firefox package supports X and wayland at the same time based on runtime configuration. Firefox also supports WebRTC which is today quite important. But for Firefox to be able to support screensharing under a Wayland session it requires pipewire. That is not an openSUSE decision but an upstream one and seems to be the solution the Linux community has chosen.

First of all requiring libpipewire is not your issue. Make sure that pipewire is not used if you don't like it on your system. Removing the library is not the solution.

...
Much more of this and I'll be looking at alternatives to suse. It's been and long run and enjoyable, but more and more there are things I'm simply not comfortable with. This is the sort of things we'd expect from Microsoft, treating us as incapable and making binding decisions for us.

If you don't like wayland and all that stuff you can move to an alternative if you find it and find that they will most likely move as well like it happened with pulseaudio, systemd and all the other things the greater community (and especially RedHat as the most important driver for such things) decided.

Stop blaming this decision for Firefox because there is no other reasonable one.

Thanks for the explanation - speaking for myself, that's all I wanted :-) It would be nice being able to read explanations on decisions like this, somewhere, without having to ask and before somebody gets er... disturbed ;-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

J Leslie Turriff

30 Sep 30 Sep

03:51

New subject: [opensuse] Re: 15.2 -- What is pipewire and how do I disable it?

On 2020-09-29 02:12:43 Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...

That is not an openSUSE decision but an upstream one and seems to be the solution the Linux community has chosen.

I have to wonder who you mean by "the Linux community"; not us end-users, I suspect. I'm getting tired of "the Linux community's" increasing tendency to push new, "gee-whiz" features on their unsuspecting "customers" (victims?). Leslie -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Rosenauer

07:22

New subject: [opensuse] Re: 15.2 -- What is pipewire and how do I disable it?

Am 30.09.20 um 05:51 schrieb J Leslie Turriff:

...

On 2020-09-29 02:12:43 Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...
That is not an openSUSE decision but an upstream one and seems to be the solution the Linux community has chosen.

I have to wonder who you mean by "the Linux community"; not us end-users, I suspect. I'm getting tired of "the Linux community's" increasing tendency to push new, "gee-whiz" features on their unsuspecting "customers" (victims?).

I wrote that inbetween the lines. I'm also not always in favor of some changes. The "Linux Community" are not the users but the developers because they are _doing_ it. The reasoning for some things are not always matching the expectations of the userbase. But looking at the ecosystem you mainly need to convince the largest player because this one is steering most of the direction. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

J Leslie Turriff

08:00

New subject: [opensuse] Re: 15.2 -- What is pipewire and how do I disable it?

On 2020-09-30 02:22:13 Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...

Am 30.09.20 um 05:51 schrieb J Leslie Turriff:

...
On 2020-09-29 02:12:43 Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...
That is not an openSUSE decision but an upstream one and seems to be the solution the Linux community has chosen.

I have to wonder who you mean by "the Linux community"; not us end-users, I suspect. I'm getting tired of "the Linux community's" increasing tendency to push new, "gee-whiz" features on their unsuspecting "customers" (victims?).

I wrote that inbetween the lines. I'm also not always in favor of some changes. The "Linux Community" are not the users but the developers because they are _doing_ it. The reasoning for some things are not always matching the expectations of the userbase. But looking at the ecosystem you mainly need to convince the largest player because this one is steering most of the direction.

Wolfgang

That's who I thought you meant. I just wish there were better ways of warning us mere users of radical changes (like systemd and wicd); unless it's something Really Big like the replacement for X11, the first I hear of disruptive changes is when I upgrade to a new release. :-( Leslie -- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Dave Howorth

10:54

New subject: [opensuse] Re: 15.2 -- What is pipewire and how do I disable it?

On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 03:00:52 -0500 J Leslie Turriff wrote:

...

On 2020-09-30 02:22:13 Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...
But looking at the ecosystem you mainly need to convince the largest player because this one is steering most of the direction.

That's who I thought you meant.

Would one of you care to actually say who you mean? Assumptions are dangerous. And I don't have much clue from various possibilities I can think of. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

J Leslie Turriff

1 Oct 1 Oct

02:56

New subject: [opensuse] Re: 15.2 -- What is pipewire and how do I disable it?

On 2020-09-30 05:54:53 Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 03:00:52 -0500

J Leslie Turriff wrote:

...
On 2020-09-30 02:22:13 Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...
But looking at the ecosystem you mainly need to convince the largest player because this one is steering most of the direction.

That's who I thought you meant.

Would one of you care to actually say who you mean? Assumptions are dangerous. And I don't have much clue from various possibilities I can think of.

Linux product/distro developers, as opposed to Linux users. Leslie -- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Rodney Baker

30 Sep 30 Sep

15:14

On Tuesday, 29 September 2020 16:42:43 ACST Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...

[...] If you don't like wayland and all that stuff you can move to an alternative if you find it and find that they will most likely move as well like it happened with pulseaudio, systemd and all the other things the greater community (and especially RedHat as the most important driver for such things) decided. [...]

For some it's not so much a matter of "not liking Wayland" as it is a matter of simply "not working" - my system, for instance. I cannot get a working desktop running Plasma on Wayland (Tumbleweed, NVidia GTX1080Ti, Nvidia drivers installed manually). And, no, I can't even use the packaged Nvidia drivers from the repository, either, for the same reason - no working desktop. For some reason, my configuration only works with the drivers installed from the Nvidia installer, and Wayland gives me nothing but a black screen (so I'm stuck with Plasma/X11). Not that there's anything wrong with that, until it finally goes away... But that's OT for the current thread - just making the point that "new and shiny" doesn't always work best...or at all... -- ============================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@iinet.net.au CCNA #CSCO12880208 ============================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Adam Mizerski

28 Sep 28 Sep

17:57

...

I check the systemd services and there is no pipewire service It's running as a user service (`systemctl --user status

W dniu 28.09.2020 o 09:28, David C. Rankin pisze: pipewire.service`) and it's being started automatically by socket activation (`systemctl --user status pipewire.socket`). You can try to disable this by `systemctl --user disable --now pipewire.service pipewire.socket`, but I have no idea what the consequences might be.

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Adam Mizerski
Andrei Borzenkov
Anton Aylward
Bengt Gördén
Carlos E. R.
Dave Howorth
David C. Rankin
Frans de Boer
J Leslie Turriff
Knurpht-openSUSE
Patrick Shanahan
Per Jessen
Peter Suetterlin
Rodney Baker
Simon Lees
Wolfgang Rosenauer

[opensuse] 15.2 -- What is pipewire and how do I disable it?

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