Dotan Cohen wrote:

2010/1/24 Jon Cosby :

...

Hey, for all of you KDE3 hold outs, someone's finally taking the initiative to fork it to a new project:

http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/

So far, they're only maintaining .deb packages for Ubuntu, but if you want to see KDE3 live on, it might be worth starting a project on the OBS.

This guy had been maintaining and distributing KDE 3.5 packages for Kubuntu for well over a year now, he is relatively well known.

KDE 3 users: please tell me what KDE 4 is missing or doesn't work for you. Other than a few minor issues (no manual panel hide, no System Settings applet, no metadata in Konqueror) I think that KDE 4.4 has all the functionality of KDE 3, and it uses less resources too now!

If there is something holding you back on KDE 3 please let me know what so that I could file a bug on it. Thanks!

I think it is more along the lines of some things were just easier to do/find in KDE 3.X. One example of this is having different backgrounds on each desktop. In KDE 3.X you right-click on any desktop and you have a "Background" section with a drop-down box for "Setting for desktop:" and you could select each desktop individually or "All Desktops". In KDE 4.X you can get each desktop with a different background but to go about it you have to know the magic incantation and survive terms such as "Zoom Out", "Configure Plasma", etc. Some things were just straight forward in KDE 3.X -- I waited and waited and when no message came I knew it must be from you.

On 2010/01/24 07:30 (GMT+0200) Dotan Cohen composed:

KDE 3 users: please tell me what KDE 4 is missing or doesn't work for you. Other than a few minor issues (no manual panel hide, no System Settings applet, no metadata in Konqueror) I think that KDE 4.4 has all the functionality of KDE 3, and it uses less resources too now!

If there is something holding you back on KDE 3 please let me know what so that I could file a bug on it. Thanks!

It's a nice gesture, but a big problem with KDE4 for KDE3 users is it's so vastly different many won't spend the time to figure out how to do what it can do, much less learn enough to know what constitutes a bug. OTOH, KDE3 parity bugs important to KDE3 users just sit, getting touched mostly with me toos, ignored by devs capable of fixing, or getting wontfixed, or getting comments that it's already there (invalid) but just works (inexplicably very) differently. I touch 4 every once in a while in Cooker or Rawhide or Factory, but no way have spent enough time to actually understand it. The Kicker replacement alone has already wasted too much of my time trying to make work and look like KDE3. -- "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams, 2nd US President Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

It's a nice gesture, but a big problem with KDE4 for KDE3 users is it's so vastly different many won't spend the time to figure out how to do what it can do, much less learn enough to know what constitutes a bug.

I know, and those who jumped at KDE 4.0 and 4.1 were doubly struck. But in my opinion KDE 4.4 is much improved and is intuitive to the point where one does not have to be familiar with it to configure it. I mean that, and I never thought that I would say that!

OTOH, KDE3 parity bugs important to KDE3 users just sit, getting touched mostly with me toos, ignored by devs capable of fixing, or getting wontfixed, or getting comments that it's already there (invalid) but just works (inexplicably very) differently.

I know, that is why I need your help! If things are not intuitive, then please let me know and I will file a bug and get the usability team on it. I think that most of "what is missing" is actually "done a little / a lot different" but for the most part I am satisfied with the new way of doing things. Again, I never thought that I would say that about KDE 4!

I touch 4 every once in a while in Cooker or Rawhide or Factory, but no way have spent enough time to actually understand it. The Kicker replacement alone has already wasted too much of my time trying to make work and look like KDE3.

It won't work or look like KDE 3. But it will let you do the same things, and will need very little fussing about (apart from resizing, which is still a pain). Please, please let me know what is not intuitive for you about the panel! And doubly so for missing features. Don't get me wrong, I am not pushing KDE 4 on anybody. I loved KDE 3 and for me it was a pain to move. But I realize that KDE 3 is for all intents and purposes abandonware, so I am trying to get other KDE 3 users to help me file issues on KDE 4 to bring it up to pace. It won't be exactly as KDE 3 was, but it will be better (already is, really) in a lot of ways. Please let me know what is missing for you! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Yes a fully functioning Quanta that is not the old KDE3 version runing under KDE4 using KDE3 bits     but a 100% Native Quanta

It is slow going as there are not enough devs: http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=19662 I really cannot help with that, as I do not use Quanta nor do I represent KDE. I do what I can with the apps that I do use, such as Plasma (the panel and desktop), Kontact, and Dolphin/Konqueror. I understand that Quanta 3 will work on KDE 4, it just needs the bloat of the Qt3 libraries being installed as well as the Qt4 libraries. Sorry I cannot help more with that! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dotan Cohen wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I am not pushing KDE 4 on anybody. I loved KDE 3 and for me it was a pain to move. But I realize that KDE 3 is for all intents and purposes abandonware, so I am trying to get other KDE 3 users to help me file issues on KDE 4 to bring it up to pace. It won't be exactly as KDE 3 was, but it will be better (already is, really) in a lot of ways. Please let me know what is missing for you!

I agree that KDE 4 is an improvement in many areas. However, when there is loss of functionality, as when neither Konqueror 4 nor Dolphin 4 is showing meta data, there is a omission that needs to be fixed. Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 24/01/10 08:32, Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

Yes a fully functioning Quanta that is not the old KDE3 version runing under KDE4 using KDE3 bits but a 100% Native Quanta It is slow going as there are not enough devs: http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=19662

I really cannot help with that, as I do not use Quanta nor do I represent KDE. I do what I can with the apps that I do use, such as Plasma (the panel and desktop), Kontact, and Dolphin/Konqueror.

I understand that Quanta 3 will work on KDE 4, it just needs the bloat of the Qt3 libraries being installed as well as the Qt4 libraries. Sorry I cannot help more with that Quanta/HTML editing features are being integrated into KDevelop as well, so if Quanta4 doesn't manage to release (it is being worked on, slowly), KDevelop in HTML-editing mode might be an acceptable solution.

http://nikosams.blogspot.com/2010/01/kdevelopquanta4-css-language-support.ht... Regards, Tejas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

When devices are listed under My computer (sorry, on Windows right now, hope you get what I mean anyway), right-clicking them only offers alternatives related to fiddling with the icon *representing* the device.

Can't remember such counter-intuitive things happening in KDE3.

Thanks, Gudmund. Please tell me what you would expect to find there.

...

Other than a few minor issues (no manual panel hide, no System Settings applet, no metadata in Konqueror) I think that KDE 4.4 has all the functionality of KDE 3, and it uses less resources too now!

How is that? How much less? What resources is it leaner on?

On a Qt4 only system (no Qt3) KDE 4 really, really flies. In fact, that was the design goal of Qt4: lower resource usage. That said, a system running both Qt3 and Qt4. along with GTK libraries, and whatever Open Office uses, is a dog! As I do not have any remaining Qt3 apps, running KDE 4.4, Open Office and FIrefox is rather quick and certainly no heavier than using the same apps in KDE 3 were. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 01/24/2010 02:39 AM, Felix Miata pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

On 2010/01/24 07:30 (GMT+0200) Dotan Cohen composed:

...

KDE 3 users: please tell me what KDE 4 is missing or doesn't work for you. Other than a few minor issues (no manual panel hide, no System Settings applet, no metadata in Konqueror) I think that KDE 4.4 has all the functionality of KDE 3, and it uses less resources too now!

...

If there is something holding you back on KDE 3 please let me know what so that I could file a bug on it. Thanks!

It's a nice gesture, but a big problem with KDE4 for KDE3 users is it's so vastly different many won't spend the time to figure out how to do what it can do, much less learn enough to know what constitutes a bug. OTOH, KDE3 parity bugs important to KDE3 users just sit, getting touched mostly with me toos, ignored by devs capable of fixing, or getting wontfixed, or getting comments that it's already there (invalid) but just works (inexplicably very) differently. I touch 4 every once in a while in Cooker or Rawhide or Factory, but no way have spent enough time to actually understand it. The Kicker replacement alone has already wasted too much of my time trying to make work and look like KDE3.

You will be assimilated. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dotan Cohen skrev:

...

When devices are listed under My computer (sorry, on Windows right now, hope you get what I mean anyway), right-clicking them only offers alternatives related to fiddling with the icon *representing* the device.

Can't remember such counter-intuitive things happening in KDE3.

Thanks, Gudmund. Please tell me what you would expect to find there.

If it's a portable HD, I'd expect mount, unmount, open in file manager X, disk manager Y, set user rights etc. options. If it's a media disk (CD, DVD), I'd expect options to open it with/in a media player of my choice. If it's a video camera, I'd expect options including video import and editing. And so on. And no, the popup on plugging things in is not enough, since it only shows on that occasion.

...

...

Other than a few minor issues (no manual panel hide, no System Settings applet, no metadata in Konqueror) I think that KDE 4.4 has all the functionality of KDE 3, and it uses less resources too now! How is that? How much less? What resources is it leaner on?

On a Qt4 only system (no Qt3) KDE 4 really, really flies. In fact, that was the design goal of Qt4: lower resource usage.

Does it require less/less advanced CPU? Less memory? ...?

That said, a system running both Qt3 and Qt4. along with GTK libraries, and whatever Open Office uses, is a dog! As I do not have any remaining Qt3 apps, running KDE 4.4, Open Office and FIrefox is rather quick and certainly no heavier than using the same apps in KDE 3 were.

Yes, OpenOffice is unfortunately bloated, and Firefox could certainly do with getting slimmer yet (including/especially for LTSP purposes...). So a lot might be won getting KDE to slim down. Good thing you're collecting this info! :) BR, Gudmund -- This message and any replies to it is scanned by http://www.fra.se. Please direct any complaints about this to them. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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You cannot sort the icons or align them to a grid either. On the desktop.

Right click > Icons > Align to Grid Right click > Icons > Sort Icons > Name/Size/Type/Date It's all there on my KDE4.4 desktop. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 16:40, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

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Right click > Icons > Align to Grid Right click > Icons > Sort Icons > Name/Size/Type/Date

It's all there on my KDE4.4 desktop.

Here you refer to the window labeled "Desktop" wherein I refer to the desktop as the whole screen that has been traditionally called the "Desktop". When you click on the screen (desktop) you get no such option.

So.. you want to align icons... where there aren't any? OK... good luck with that.

This isn't Microsoft Windows, stop trying to make it the same. And having to zoom the desktop in and out to get to other apps that are running _is_ a step backward.

Zoom in and out? Whatever Ken... you seem to be purposely making life hard for yourself... KDE4 is not hard.. it's different, but.. it's not hard. And, when and where did I say ANYTHING about Windows? Bah... I keep telling myself to stop replying to you... and I keep doing it... I guess I'm a glutton for inane and pointless conversations. Sigh... C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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The term widget was invented here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Athena

An icon by anyother name is still just an icon.

Right, but these are interactive components. They are not icons.

You are right in that no one is forced to lock them down. However, if you don't they will get scattered all over the desktop willy-nilly at random.

I have never seen this happen. Did this not happen to you in KDE 3 without locking? Then why should it happen in KDE 4 without locking?

And, in this sense, you cannot add new ones to the desktop it's not even offered from the selection menu unless the desktop is unlocked.

But you are going to leave it unlocked anyway, no?

My main point here is why is it necessary to "lock down" the desktop inorder to have a stable desktop?

It is not necessary. It is an additional feature that KDE 3 did not have, and one that you are free not to use.

...

I assume that you are now referring to the icons in Konqueror.

No, I am referring to the icons on the desktop.

I wrote that while I was still misunderstanding you. I meant to erase it, see the bug that mentioned with that text, it is the bug you were looking for. Just ignore that one sentence. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2010/1/24 Ken Schneider - openSUSE :

On 01/24/2010 09:33 AM, Clayton pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

...

...

...

You cannot sort the icons or align them to a grid either. On the desktop.

Right click > Icons > Align to Grid Right click > Icons > Sort Icons > Name/Size/Type/Date

It's all there on my KDE4.4 desktop.

C.

Here you refer to the window labeled "Desktop" wherein I refer to the desktop as the whole screen that has been traditionally called the "Desktop". When you click on the screen (desktop) you get no such option.

This isn't Microsoft Windows, stop trying to make it the same. And having to zoom the desktop in and out to get to other apps that are running _is_ a step backward.

It is funny that you insist on using MS Windows terminology and insist on MS Windows behaviour, then request that KDE not act like MS Windows. KDE 4 is the furthest thing from MS WIndows so far as the desktop is concerned. So far, in fact, that it seems to make you uncomfortable. If you prefer MS Windows behaviour, use the Folder View mode.

I'm still learning some of the insane nuances of KDE 4.x

They are in fact different than KDE 3 or Windows, and I know that it will take some unlearning. My intention is not to force you into KDE 4, rather, to identify where KDE 4 could improve to be more comfortable for current KDE 3 users. Thanks for sharing your frustrations with me to help improve KDE 4. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Even with Personas, Firefox 3.6 is a LOT faster than any 3.5.x or previous version.

Thanks, I will start testing my extensions and move up in the world! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Jon Cosby wrote:

My intention wasn't to move people away from KDE4, just to offer a choice. There are people holding out on> 11.0 only because it's the last release supporting KDE3.

That's why I still use 11.0. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 01/24/2010 11:00 AM, Dotan Cohen pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

...

...

The term widget was invented here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Athena

An icon by anyother name is still just an icon.

Right, but these are interactive components. They are not icons.

...

You are right in that no one is forced to lock them down. However, if you don't they will get scattered all over the desktop willy-nilly at random.

I have never seen this happen. Did this not happen to you in KDE 3 without locking? Then why should it happen in KDE 4 without locking?

It happened to me and several others in the early development of KDE4.x. Perhaps the problem was fixed.

...

And, in this sense, you cannot add new ones to the desktop it's not even offered from the selection menu unless the desktop is unlocked.

But you are going to leave it unlocked anyway, no?

Not unless the problem of wandering icons has been fixed.

...

My main point here is why is it necessary to "lock down" the desktop inorder to have a stable desktop?

It is not necessary. It is an additional feature that KDE 3 did not have, and one that you are free not to use.

Then it appears to be a useless "feature" if it is not needed.

...

...

I assume that you are now referring to the icons in Konqueror.

No, I am referring to the icons on the desktop.

I wrote that while I was still misunderstanding you. I meant to erase it, see the bug that mentioned with that text, it is the bug you were looking for. Just ignore that one sentence.

Dotan, I and many others really appreciate the hard work you are doing in trying to get KDE4.x feature complete. My reference to MS is having only one desktop to use. I believe many thousands of people got use to having multiple desktops to work with and it is hard to break. I refer to some who state that they only use _one_ desktop which requires you to zoom your desktop "view" in and out to get to the other apps running on your computer when a simple switch to another desktop works faster for me. Enough of my ranting and back to trying to learn more of this KDE4.x beast. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 24 January 2010 08:22:29 Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

...

The term widget was invented here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Athena

An icon by anyother name is still just an icon.

The widget is control element and some of widgets have icon as their graphic presentation. The certain large company effort on "user friendly" computer experience made this distinction disappear and now we have to live with ambiguity in a word icon. Icon is an image from Greek εἰκών eikōn "image"), small in size, where small ranges from couple to few inches, but that is better explained in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon That term was used in above way for centuries before computer era, and even nowadays there is large chance that majority of people that use word icon don't mean it as described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon_(computing) -- Regards Rajko, openSUSE Wiki Team: http://en.opensuse.org/Wiki_Team People of openSUSE: http://en.opensuse.org/People_of_openSUSE/About -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

I want to declare that the only thing I have against KDE 4 is some missing features that were in KDE 3.

When these features are implemented in KDE 4 too, I think KDE 4 will be great.

Great, please tell me what those features are! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, 2010-01-24 at 21:12 +0200, Mark Goldstein wrote:

5) kdetv is not ported yet to KDE4.

It seems it actually is, though I don't know how polished the port is http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/multimedia/kdetv/ As of yet I don't think anyone has built it for the build service

7) Somebody wrote on that list that new amarok does not allow tags editing.

You can edit id3-tags with amarok2. Or did you mean something else? Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 24 Jan 2010 10:52:59 Tejas Guruswamy wrote:

On 24/01/10 08:32, Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

...

Yes a fully functioning Quanta that is not the old KDE3 version runing under KDE4 using KDE3 bits but a 100% Native Quanta

It is slow going as there are not enough devs: http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=19662

I really cannot help with that, as I do not use Quanta nor do I represent KDE. I do what I can with the apps that I do use, such as Plasma (the panel and desktop), Kontact, and Dolphin/Konqueror.

I understand that Quanta 3 will work on KDE 4, it just needs the bloat of the Qt3 libraries being installed as well as the Qt4 libraries. Sorry I cannot help more with that

Quanta/HTML editing features are being integrated into KDevelop as well, so if Quanta4 doesn't manage to release (it is being worked on, slowly), KDevelop in HTML-editing mode might be an acceptable solution.

http://nikosams.blogspot.com/2010/01/kdevelopquanta4-css-language-support.h tml

Regards, Tejas

i really do hope they do not tarnish quanta in the guise of Kdevelop i have looked at that and quite frankly thanks but NO thanks it is pants for want of a better description Pete -- Powered by openSUSE 11.2 Milestone 2 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.30-rc6-git3-4- default KDE: 4.2.86 (KDE 4.2.86 (KDE 4.3 >= 20090514)) "release 1" 19:43 up 1 day 10:25, 3 users, load average: 1.03, 0.80, 0.47

On Sun, 2010-01-24 at 21:50 +0200, Mark Goldstein wrote:

...

...

7) Somebody wrote on that list that new amarok does not allow tags editing.

You can edit id3-tags with amarok2. Or did you mean something else?

I have not tried myself. Someone wrote here:

...

1.4 had one feature that seems to just not be there now... Editing track tags and using Musicbrainz to fill them in. Since it doesn't seem to be there, what are people using for an equivalent function?

If I misunderstood it, I apologize. I'll try and check myself.

Well, I'm using amarok 2.2.2, and I'm editing id3-tags with it. Not sure about musicbrainz though, I never used that. But you can definitely edit the tags manually Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dotan Cohen wrote: (Per Inge Oestmoen):

...

I want to declare that the only thing I have against KDE 4 is some missing features that were in KDE 3.

...

When these features are implemented in KDE 4 too, I think KDE 4 will be great.

Great, please tell me what those features are!

I have already mentioned the absence of a Meta data functionality in Dolphin 4 and Konqueror 4. In the 3.5x versions we could right click on any given file and get a long list of information without need for opening more programs to get at it. Now neither Dolphin nor Konqueror can show this information in their 4.x versions. That needs to be remedied. Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 06:01, Larry Stotler wrote:

Configuration is a HUGE pain.  But then again, the new YaST2 sucks as well.  Too much going on for no good reason.

Is that the overall YaST or just the Software Manager?

KDE4 is SLOW!  Especially on older hardware.  Kinda like Vista.

No on asked if we wanted all these new changes.  I don't use much of what KDE3 offered, but I have yet to see ANY reason to go to KDE4. Personally, I'm looking at other lighter desktops.  KDE4 just isn't what I want on my desktop.

There have been a few threads lately about some of the other lesser known WMs... like e16 and e17 (the discussions included links to screenshots etc). There are some really nice and very good looking alternatives to the "big two" window managers. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

It is hard to name one single issue. I honestly tried KDE4.3.3 on a number of machines (and still have it on one), but there were too many small issues, so that eventually I decided to stay with 11.0/KDE3.5 on my main Desktop. I've opened bugs on most annoying things.

Very good that you have filed the bugs! However, as you have noticed, most of the bugs are pushed upstream as they are in fact KDE bugs. Definitely file KDE issues there as that is from where the fix must originate.

3) Login manager settings are changed after update (files backgroundrc and kdmrc).

This does seem to be Suse-specific.

4) Two small one, not really important: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557260 and https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557283

The Hebrew bug I will forward to the Heb-bugzap list. Thanks.

5) kdetv is not ported yet to KDE4. So one have to use KDE3 version.

I looks like it's in the process of being ported. I would ask the kdetv devs, as despite the name I don't think it is an official KDE application.

6) webilder (program that downloads pictures from webshots and flicker and makes them "wallpapers" is not working in KDE4 yet).

This also does not seem to be a KDE app. However, I think there is some way to do this within KDE 4, at least I remember seeing reference to it once but cannot find it now.

7) Somebody wrote  on that list that new amarok does not allow tags editing. I was using it intensively, since I had not found anything that flexible with regards to language and encoding.

Seems fixed in Amarok 2.2: http://amarok.kde.org/en/releases/2.2 -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2010/1/25 Larry Stotler :

On 1/24/10, Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

I know, and those who jumped at KDE 4.0 and 4.1 were doubly struck. But in my opinion KDE 4.4 is much improved and is intuitive to the point where one does not have to be familiar with it to configure it. I mean that, and I never thought that I would say that!

Configuration is a HUGE pain.  But then again, the new YaST2 sucks as well.  Too much going on for no good reason.

Panel configuration is still a pain in my opinion. Please, mention _specific_ pains and I will file bugs on them! That is exactly my intention and the reason why I am here. Make sure that you are on KDE 4.4, however, as much has changed in that release.

KDE4 is SLOW!  Especially on older hardware.  Kinda like Vista.

If you are loading Qt3 and Qt4 libraries, then yes, it is slower than Qt3 alone. However, for systems running only Qt4 libraries, KDE 4 is much more responsive than KDE 3. In fact, that was a specific design goal for Qt4. I run it on older hardware, and the difference (improvement) is noticable. Which Qt3 applications do you still use? I may be able to make suggestions.

No on asked if we wanted all these new changes.  I don't use much of what KDE3 offered, but I have yet to see ANY reason to go to KDE4.

If you have no reason, then continue using KDE 3. I am only here to help people file their issues on KDE 4 so that when KDE 3 is no long suitable (it is no longer actively maintained) they will have an alternative ready.

Personally, I'm looking at other lighter desktops.  KDE4 just isn't what I want on my desktop.

XFCE seems to be very popular, especially if you use many GTK apps. If someone knows of a lightweight Qt desktop, I'd like to know about it. Maybe the Plasma Netbook Remix? -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: ...

Very good that you have filed the bugs! However, as you have noticed, most of the bugs are pushed upstream as they are in fact KDE bugs. Definitely file KDE issues there as that is from where the fix must originate.

Well, to open the issues upstream I have to be sure it is not SUSE-specific. I do not have other distro installed currently, so I can only guess. That's why I preferred to open them in novel bugzilla in hope that developers will forward it usptream, if necessary. BTW, it sounds a bit strange to me that when the bug is identified as upstream, it is now marked as "resolved" in Novell bugzilla. I would expect some kind of "monitoring" state. Otherwise how will Open SUSE developers know when the upstream bug is fixed and they can pick the fix up?

...

5) kdetv is not ported yet to KDE4. So one have to use KDE3 version.

I looks like it's in the process of being ported. I would ask the kdetv devs, as despite the name I don't think it is an official KDE application.

It was in KDE for many years. It was initially called kwintv, but at some stage was included in KDE and renamed to kdetv. It is in the process of porting and is in KDE "playground", so I hope in some short time it will be back.

...

6) webilder (program that downloads pictures from webshots and flicker and makes them "wallpapers" is not working in KDE4 yet).

This also does not seem to be a KDE app. However, I think there is some way to do this within KDE 4, at least I remember seeing reference to it once but cannot find it now.

I agree that this one is not official KDE app. It works with KDE and Gnome. The author specifically mention it does not work with KDE4 and requested help with porting. I even tried to look into it (and learn a bit of Python on that occasion), but found that the problem is first of all in mapping of different Qt3 APIs to Qt4. This is a bit beyond my current capabilities.

Seems fixed in Amarok 2.2: http://amarok.kde.org/en/releases/2.2

Thanks, I'll re-check -- Mark Goldstein -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* Larry Stotler [01-25-10 00:04]:

No on asked if we wanted all these new changes. I don't use much of what KDE3 offered, but I have yet to see ANY reason to go to KDE4. Personally, I'm looking at other lighter desktops. KDE4 just isn't what I want on my desktop.

You are *really* free to use whatever desktop environment that you wish, supported or not, ergo; no reason to respond. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 01/25/2010 07:38 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

You are *really* free to use whatever desktop environment that you wish, supported or not, ergo; no reason to respond.

While that is true, I personally _want_ people unhappy with KDE 4 to let me know what needs improvement. I have no problem with them moving to a different desktop environment, however, I would like to bugs and feature requests to improve KDE 4. Those happy with it, naturally, and not the ones to help improve it!

KDE4: Startup multiple konsole sessions (not in tabs). Then in one of them, enter CNTRL-ALT-ESC and return. They all die. This is a BUG... Also in konsole, cursor movement via the mouse wheel while using vi is a really nice feature added in KDE4, however, if your mouse wheel is smooth instead of clicking as it is spun, dragging and dropping text while in an edit mode, is very difficult as the text will get dropped in the wrong place if the wheel moves just the slightest little bit as you push the wheel button to drop in your text. Very annoying. A mouse that has a wheel that clicks as it is spun doesn't seem to be a problem. Mark -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 24 Jan 2010 07:56:33 Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

I think it is more along the lines of some things were just easier to do/find in KDE 3.X. One example of this is having different backgrounds on each desktop.

Please comment on this bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=224005

It is not exactly as it was in KDE 3, but it fits more with the KDE 4 paradigm while providing functionality to do the same thing.

Yes I think something like that would work for me. Eddie -- Let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. Heb. 12:25 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Don't get me wrong, I am not pushing KDE 4 on anybody. I loved KDE 3 and for me it was a pain to move. But I realize that KDE 3 is for all intents and purposes abandonware, so I am trying to get other KDE 3 users to help me file issues on KDE 4 to bring it up to pace. It won't be exactly as KDE 3 was, but it will be better (already is, really) in a lot of ways. Please let me know what is missing for you!

I would love to be able to add my own apps to the panel bar at the bottom of the screen, for example I would like to add konqueror as web browser because I like its bookmark handling, sftp protocol handling and the simple one button click to clear the url. I also use it as a filemanager, because of its split screen shortcuts which I use to compare websites when shopping or when transferring files between two or more locations. I have added them but It took me ages, whereas I would like to see a drag and drop solution or at least a simple "intuitive" solution. I would also love to see a solution to setting default apps. So that I could change, for example, the player for all my video format from the one set to the one that I want, without having to find all the various video mimetypes and their properties and then adding an app and finally placing it a dominant position. Thanks Eddie -- Let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. Heb. 12:25 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 4:35 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

Panel configuration is still a pain in my opinion. Please, mention _specific_ pains and I will file bugs on them! That is exactly my intention and the reason why I am here. Make sure that you are on KDE 4.4, however, as much has changed in that release.

All configs on KDE4 are difficult. Nowhere near as easy as 3. However, since I limit my KDE4 usage, I don't know what is what and honestly I just don't have the time to work on it.

...

KDE4 is SLOW!  Especially on older hardware.  Kinda like Vista.

If you are loading Qt3 and Qt4 libraries, then yes, it is slower than Qt3 alone. However, for systems running only Qt4 libraries, KDE 4 is much more responsive than KDE 3. In fact, that was a specific design goal for Qt4. I run it on older hardware, and the difference (improvement) is noticable.

Define older. I have a Thinkpad 390X with a P3/500 and a 2.5MB VRAM Neomagic chip. No way I would even try KDE 4 on that. My Thinkpad A22m(P3/1Ghz) and X21's(P3/700) have ATI Mobility M3s. KDE4 was very unresponsive on them. Side by side with my 2 X21s and you see I world of difference in speed.

Which Qt3 applications do you still use? I may be able to make suggestions.

Very few. KOffice the most. I use Firefox and would use gnome due to the gtk libs, but I really despise gnome..... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 25 January 2010 07:31:54 am Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

...

Also in konsole, cursor movement via the mouse wheel while using vi is a really nice feature added in KDE4, however, if your mouse wheel is smooth instead of clicking as it is spun, dragging and dropping text while in an edit mode, is very difficult as the text will get dropped in the wrong place if the wheel moves just the slightest little bit as you push the wheel button to drop in your text. Very annoying. A mouse that has a wheel that clicks as it is spun doesn't seem to be a problem.

This has been driving me crazy as well. I use this kind of cut and paste in vi very often. Is there no way to disable this in vi? I am not sure how that would work, as it is really a konsole thing. But maybe vi could be told to ignore the scroll wheel? I use vi keys for this anyway. And, of course, that still does not get at the core issue. But it would make my use more pleasant.

i strongly suspect you are not actually using vi, but its much improved descendant, vim the command :ver will answer that question for you if vim, see :help scroll-mouse-wheel for an explanation on what is going on -- i believe from reading that help you could disable mousewheel scrolling by putting something like nmap <MouseDown> <Nop> nmap <MouseUp> <Nop> in your ~/.vimrc sc -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2010. január 24. 8:39 napon Felix Miata írta:

On 2010/01/24 07:30 (GMT+0200) Dotan Cohen composed:

...

KDE 3 users: please tell me what KDE 4 is missing or doesn't work for you. Other than a few minor issues (no manual panel hide, no System Settings applet, no metadata in Konqueror) I think that KDE 4.4 has all the functionality of KDE 3, and it uses less resources too now!

[snip]

It's a nice gesture, but a big problem with KDE4 for KDE3 users is it's so vastly different many won't spend the time to figure out how to do what it can do,

[snip]

The Kicker replacement alone has already wasted too much of my time trying to make work and look like KDE3.

Hello: It is not only about if KDE4 can do the same or not as KDE3 (it can't). Even if it can do the same it does it very differently than KDE3. Why do KDE developers think that people who invested a lot of time to learn how to use KDE3 now will start this learning curve again? I am sure that my parents won't, they will keep using KDE3. Even if it isn't perfect there are no showstoppers in it for most of its users. KDE4 is full of showstoppers. And how could it happen that a distribution like SUSE/openSUSE which is/was (?) famous for its reliability, stability and user friendliness included that buggy, unstable KDE4 as default KDE, and expelled KDE3 to build service? Why the KDE developers claimed their less-than beta quality product stable back then, when KDE 4.2 came out? (Now they say that it will be stable, usable at version 4.2 in August.) Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

And as I sit here with a machine at work running a Pentium 4 @ 2.4Ghz ,1.5GB memory, ATI Radeon X1650 with dual monitors, and Suse 11.1 with both 3.5.10 and 4.3 from factory. The 3.5 runs everything very well Kpilot syncs fine, I have 3D graphics with glxgears running at 2460 fps. When I run 4.3 it takes 4minutes to boot from the login screen, then the screen will freeze randomly about every 5 to 40 minutes for about 1 minute to 4 minutes or sometimes I have to reboot. If I play videos from youtube the video will shudder several times and if I play full screen it will shudder and then lock up every time requiring a complete reboot. About 25% of the time when I left click on the mouse, on any document, icon or screen the cursor will jump about 5 mm selecting something else or nothing, you can do this repeatedly( ten -twenty times) until it finally works or until I move far enough down so that I hit the right spot. There is no Kpilot and kdepim reports there won't be so no syncing my palm pilot. I have a Toshiba laptop with a ATI 1700 graphics chip that the mouse does the same thing on. They both seem to run a lot slower. The laptop I installed with just 4.3 adding 3.5 a month later it did not seem to slow it down anymore that it already was, from comparing it to just 3.5 on 11.0. I have been really trying to like 4.3 but it is really getting in my way of doing some meaningful work. -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is Robert Cunningham Sr. Physics Laboratory Coordinator /RSO -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2010. január 25. 16:53 napon Larry Stotler írta: [snip]

Then why did you bother. There are obviously those of use who despise KDE4 and no amount of bug fixing will make it work for us. If they can make a KDE3 style skin for KDE4

I started using openSUSE since its default KDE3 desktop looked very nice, clean and professional compared to other distros. I got used to this professional nice lookout and I really miss it in KDE4. Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2010. január 25. 19:35 napon Felix Miata írta:

On 2010/01/25 19:22 (GMT+0100) Istvan Gabor composed:

...

I already asked about this issue two times on this list but hadn't got any response.

I've noticed that KDE issues seem to get better responses when discussed on the opensuse-kde list than they do here.

Well, I labelled my note as OFF, and I meant the YAST issue (new design of YAST in 11.2), not the KDE one. Cheers, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Startup multiple konsole sessions (not in tabs). Then in one of them, enter CNTRL-ALT-ESC and return. They all die. This is a BUG...

I would assume that they are all in the same process, then. I think that is a six-legged feature...

Also in konsole, cursor movement via the mouse wheel while using vi is a really nice feature added in KDE4, however, if your mouse wheel is smooth instead of clicking as it is spun, dragging and dropping text while in an edit mode, is very difficult as the text will get dropped in the wrong place if the wheel moves just the slightest little bit as you push the wheel button to drop in your text. Very annoying. A mouse that has a wheel that clicks as it is spun doesn't seem to be a problem.

I did not know about that feature, thanks! However, that is obviously a hardware problem, no way around it. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 1/25/2010 4:02 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

Startup multiple konsole sessions (not in tabs). Then in one of them, enter CNTRL-ALT-ESC and return. They all die. This is a BUG...

I would assume that they are all in the same process, then. I think that is a six-legged feature...

...

Also in konsole, cursor movement via the mouse wheel while using vi is a really nice feature added in KDE4, however, if your mouse wheel is smooth instead of clicking as it is spun, dragging and dropping text while in an edit mode, is very difficult as the text will get dropped in the wrong place if the wheel moves just the slightest little bit as you push the wheel button to drop in your text. Very annoying. A mouse that has a wheel that clicks as it is spun doesn't seem to be a problem.

I did not know about that feature, thanks! However, that is obviously a hardware problem, no way around it.

This may be naive, but wouldn't a modification of the sensitivity to the wheel movement help a lot? This could presumably be done in software, just as sensitivity to mouse movement is--at least in Windows. I've never tried to change it in Linux, it seems to be about right to begin with. --doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2010/1/25 Larry Stotler :

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

You are *really* free to use whatever desktop environment that you wish, supported or not, ergo; no reason to respond.

Then why did you bother.  There are obviously those of use who despise KDE4 and no amount of bug fixing will make it work for us.

Then I cannot help you. My goal is to improve KDE 4, so maybe you could help me by pointing out the bad parts. But you should definitely have tried KDE 4.4, as it is completely different than KDE 4.0 or 4.1 that was obviously a bad experience for you.

 If they can make a KDE3 style skin for KDE4 with none of the new bloat and useless features like when I hit the upper right corner and my windows do funky things......I DON'T need things like that.

There are KDE 3 style themes, for the most part. And I also disable that Mac OS-X ripoff corner magic that always annoys me.

 Or turn off the previews when I hover on the taskbar.  Don't need that either.

Disabled on my setup as well.

Bouncing windows, desktop search, nope.

Disabled here, too, but I am considering enabling the desktop search as it has other nice features. I won't bore you with them, though.

 Icons that have crap bounce up when I hover over them.

Such as? If you mean those annoying tooltips, then _please_ comment here: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211593

What's the point?  I had asked that kpersonalizer be ported but I guess that's way too big of a job for them to figure out how to easily turn off all the new crap since that's what they wanted.  Remember the deal over having the desktop like it WAS?  We were told we didn't need that and they relented when they found out they were wrong.

I don't follow you. Almost everything that you mentioned you can disable.

If the speed problem is running both qt3 and qt4 libs, then why bother running KDE4?

Don't! Just please test it and file issues (or let me file them) so that the annoying things can be fixed before you move off KDE 3. Or test Gnome and file issues there. Or XFCE. But don't expect KDE 3 to last forever. It's the next BeOS. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2010/1/25 Robert Cunningham :

And as I sit here with a machine at work running a Pentium 4 @ 2.4Ghz ,1.5GB memory, ATI Radeon X1650 with dual monitors, and Suse 11.1 with both 3.5.10 and 4.3 from factory. The 3.5 runs everything very well Kpilot syncs fine, I have 3D graphics with glxgears running at 2460 fps.   When I run 4.3 it takes 4minutes to boot from the login screen, then the screen will freeze randomly about every 5 to 40 minutes for about 1 minute to 4 minutes or sometimes I have to reboot.   If I play videos from youtube  the video will shudder several times and if I play full screen it will shudder and then lock up every time requiring a  complete reboot. About 25% of the time when I left click on the mouse, on any document, icon or screen the cursor will jump about 5 mm selecting something else or nothing, you can do this repeatedly( ten -twenty times) until it finally works or until I move  far enough down so that I hit the right spot.  There is no Kpilot and kdepim reports there won't be so no syncing my palm pilot. I have a Toshiba laptop with a ATI 1700 graphics chip that the mouse does the same thing on. They both seem to run a lot slower. The laptop I installed with just 4.3  adding 3.5 a month later it did not seem to slow it down anymore that it already was, from comparing it to just 3.5 on 11.0. I have been really trying to like 4.3  but it is really getting in my way of doing some meaningful work.

Robert, if you have a spare partition on that machine please install something very recent with KDE 4.4 RC. Kubuntu makes this easy. Then test without installing any Qt3 apps. The issues that you describe are not typical of other machines that I have installed on with similar specs. I actually had KDE 4.3.1 running on a 1.6 Ghz Pentium 4 with 1GB RAM and it ran just fine. But that was without any Qt3 libraries, which are known to affect the system. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

This may be naive, but wouldn't a modification of the sensitivity to the wheel movement help a lot?  This could presumably be done in software, just as sensitivity to mouse movement is--at least in Windows.  I've never tried to change it in Linux, it seems to be about right to begin with.

The wheel actually sends button press events, just like the right, left, and middle buttons. Therefore there is no sensitivity to configure, like there is with the ball (or optical sensor) on the bottom. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

Don't! Just please test it and file issues (or let me file them) so that the annoying things can be fixed before you move off KDE 3. Or test Gnome and file issues there. Or XFCE. But don't expect KDE 3 to last forever. It's the next BeOS.

I know you are trying to help Dotan, but I just cannot find any compelling reason to move to KDE4. I just don't have the time NOR the inclination to figure out how to make KDE4 work like KDE3. Especially since I can still use KDE3. I don't share the new direction that the KDE devs have decided upon. I'm using a friend's machine that has KDE4 and it's annoying. I move the mouse to far when going to the file menu and the screen jumps with that annoying choose a window. I could go on and on. Once they get it so I can make it work and look like KDE3 and it's faster, then I will re-evaluate it. Otherwise, I have too many other pressing needs. Shoot I spend a lot of my time in the virtual terminals. YaST ncurses is much faster than GUI. Good luck tho. Sorry if my 2 cents doesn't help. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

...

 Once they get it so I can make it work and look like KDE3 and it's faster, then I will re-evaluate it.

They won't. You will be able to do the same things, but it won't look the same.

This might be the key to why some people are having such major issues. They insist on spending huge amounts of time and energy trying to make KDE4 look like KDE3. You can do the same thing with KDE4 as you could with KDE3, but in the KDE4 way... not the KDE3 way (whether that's good or bad is not the point I'm trying ot make here). In most aspects the two are actually quite similar if you stop fighting against it. Yes there are differences, and yes some bits function totally different... and in some places it's still quite broken or missing features... but that's what bug reports are for and that's what Dotan is working hard on here. If you look through the bugs Dotan has raised on the KDE.org Bugzilla... a LOT of them have been worked on... seriously... a lot have been resolved.... things like being able to toggle off desktop switching with the scroll wheel... and so on. It _is_ worth the effort to go in there and vote/comment on the bug reports. The result is that where KDE4 is seriously lacking (and there is no question here that KDE has been and still is seriously lacking in many areas) is being worked on, and it is getting better. KDE4.4 has no comparison to what came before it in terms of usability. It's really improving, and fast. Take the missing metadata thing. The fact it's currently missing does not mean that this is the end of discussion. It's simply *not there yet*. If you need that feature.. comment on the bug report, vote for it. The same applies to all those other missing things we want or need... like different wallpaper per desktop without needing to futz with Activities. The screen hotspots is a setting.. easy to switch off, and something I also turn off - although I've kept it on my netbook since there... it's actually quite useful. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 26 January 2010 12:56:22 am Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

I know you are trying to help Dotan, but I just cannot find any compelling reason to move to KDE4. I just don't have the time NOR the inclination to figure out how to make KDE4 work like KDE3. Especially since I can still use KDE3. I don't share the new direction that the KDE devs have decided upon.

That's fine, you don't have to use it! You certainly have no obligation, quite the opposite. I just want to know what the problems are so that I can help fix them.

...

I'm using a friend's machine that has KDE4 and it's annoying. I move the mouse to far when going to the file menu and the screen jumps with that annoying choose a window.

You can disable that in System Settings. It is the first thing that I disable on a new KDE 4 install!

...

I could go on and on.

Please, please do! I want to know.

...

Once they get it so I can make it work and look

like KDE3 and it's faster, then I will re-evaluate it.

They won't. You will be able to do the same things, but it won't look the same. As for faster, KDE 4 _is_ faster than KDE 3, so long as you don't have Qt3 libraries running.

...

Otherwise, I

have too many other pressing needs. Shoot I spend a lot of my time in the virtual terminals. YaST ncurses is much faster than GUI.

Good luck tho. Sorry if my 2 cents doesn't help.

So long as you let me know what annoys you and help me file bugs and feature requests, you are helping a lot. Thanks.

Forgive me,.... but you did ask. For one "PLASMA" has got to be the most obtuse aspect of V4. It's kludgy and the SUSE team insists on disabling stuff like the kdm theme change option because they insist on using the openSUSE theme in the OPENSUSE way. I have been using both SuSE and kde for over 10 years. I looked forward to V4 and anticipated glitches et al....... But the overall concept not only is obtuse but at times insulting. 1/2 of the plasmoids aren't configurable, so if your system differs in any appreciable amount from the plasmoid dev then you may have issues and then either stick with it and deal (aka Half baked plasmoid) or drop it and "hope" you'll find something that might work... Take the many versions of weather plasmoids... Also, after having used Ubuntu Kubuntu and Mandriva the kde offerings are more user friendly merely because they afford more options and feature access........ I guess the SUSE team (gotta love Novell) thinks they should decide what should be dropped, and that seems to change with each version. The sound config for pulse in the "personal settings" compared to other distros seems to be dumbed down and access to the pulseaudio config tools in /usr/bin isn't in the menus... Guess if you're not inclined to be a bit of a geek you on your own... Over all the menu and "kickoff" (I HATE THAT) are lacking to say the least and the menu update tool that used to be in kde 3 isn't there so If SUSE hasn't deemed anything essential then is a hand written menu adjust or go punt (for the less technologically inclined). I had gone to using E17 and then with ecomorph... but then that broke when 11.2 came along! I find the overall trend in both development and implementation bothersome especially in light that SUSE (or SuSE) was one of the man supporters and devel contributors to the KDE project only to see both of them (KDE and SuSE) spin off who knows where. If you want to improve KDE 4, look at what the disgruntled dislike in comparsion to V 3 - instead of trying to completely redesign the mousetrap, might your team consider augmenting the transition.... But what do I and the rest know... If Novell had their way they'd have us all using GNOME regardless (actually tried and the user base revolted - due to lack of choice [not so much about Gnome itself]), I mean they're bound and determined to make the investment in Ximian pay off one way of the other. Just my $0.02, Curtis. -- BEWARE! Spammers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Those throwing objects at the alligators will be asked to retrieve them! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:27, Curtis Rey wrote:

...

1/2 of the plasmoids aren't configurable, so if your system differs in any appreciable amount from the plasmoid dev then you may have issues and then either stick with it and deal (aka Half baked plasmoid) or drop it and "hope" you'll find something that might work... Take the many versions of weather plasmoids...

Not that I'm trying to justify it (I agree 100% with your observation) but... how is this any different from say... SuperKaramba applets in KDE3? SK in V3 wasn't my favorite... I used Gkrellm for that. It's wasn't until recently

On Tuesday 26 January 2010 01:39:03 am Clayton wrote: that I started to use SK at all and only in limited forms.

So... the plasmoids problem you've pointed out isn't a new one.

I agree, the plasmoids are an old problem that just seems to persist as a problem. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one cannot seperated "plasma" from the base KDE4 desktop. I mean one does not have to "utilize" the various "plasmoids" but the plasma dashboard is riveted to the desktop and if you kill plasma you kill K-V4, the whole concept upon which "plasma" was developed is what I have issue with.

...

Over all the menu and "kickoff" (I H the menu update tool that used to be in kde 3 isn't there

It isn't? Then I've managed to install it somehow... I've got the same menu editor in KDE4.4 as I had in KDE3.5. Looks the same..

...

functions the same.

There was a "program" (you know - click an icon, and get a gui with more icons to click... not a menu editor) that would search various directories and then present them in a windows list with check boxes to select the various programs to be "integrated" into the menu (and this was DISCONTINUED in K v3.5 ... actually SUSE D/C'ed it in 3.4 but one could install it 3rd party). Once you select the programs (or there was and option to select all) the you hit ok and voila ... updated menus without the need to manually edit the menu. Yes, the same menu "editor" is available in both versions.... however, have fun entering 30 or more new programs into said menu...lots of fun! Especially considering there used to be a "program" that would automatically add the majority of new or non-traditional entries via said gui. Curtis. -- BEWARE! Spammers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Those throwing objects at the alligators will be asked to retrieve them! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

This might be the key to why some people are having such major issues.  They insist on spending huge amounts of time and energy trying to make KDE4 look like KDE3.  You can do the same thing with KDE4 as you could with KDE3, but in the KDE4 way... not the KDE3 way (whether that's good or bad is not the point I'm trying ot make here).  In most aspects the two are actually quite similar if you stop fighting against it.  Yes there are differences, and yes some bits function totally different... and in some places it's still quite broken or missing features... but that's what bug reports are for and that's what Dotan is working hard on here.

Exactly, I see this as akin to new Linux users wanting KDE/Gnome/XFCE to work just like Windows. It doesn't :)

If you look through the bugs Dotan has raised on the KDE.org Bugzilla... a LOT of them have been worked on... seriously... a lot have been resolved.... things like being able to toggle off desktop switching with the scroll wheel... and so on.  It _is_ worth the effort to go in there and vote/comment on the bug reports.  The result is that where KDE4 is seriously lacking (and there is no question here that KDE has been and still is seriously lacking in many areas) is being worked on, and it is getting better.  KDE4.4 has no comparison to what came before it in terms of usability.  It's really improving, and fast.

Expanding on that: I have filed or triaged just over 1200 bugs in KDE. About two-thirds of them are already resolved. Most of the others are in active development. The fastest way to get a feature implemented is to comment on it. The main Plasma dev mentioned that he does not look at votes when deciding which features to implement, he looks at how many dupes are filed and the quality (persuation) of the comments. He and most other KDE devs are very open to adding user-requested features, so long as we ask in the right way (the developers' way: bugzilla).

Take the missing metadata thing.  The fact it's currently missing does not mean that this is the end of discussion.  It's simply *not there yet*.  If you need that feature.. comment on the bug report, vote for it.  The same applies to all those other missing things we want or need... like different wallpaper per desktop without needing to futz with Activities.

The screen hotspots is a setting.. easy to switch off, and something I also turn off - although I've kept it on my netbook since there... it's actually quite useful.

I leave the Ctrl-F10 shortcut for that, and it really is helpful. But I hate it when the mouse activates it! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Correct me if I'm wrong, but one cannot seperated "plasma" from the base KDE4 desktop.  I mean one does not have to "utilize" the various "plasmoids" but the plasma dashboard is riveted to the desktop and if you kill plasma you kill K-V4, the whole concept upon which "plasma" was developed is what I have issue with.

Plasma is the technology on which the desktop and the panel are built. It would be like removing C or Python.

There was a "program" (you know - click an icon, and get a gui with more icons to click... not a menu editor) that would search various directories and then present them in a windows list with check boxes to select the various programs to be "integrated" into the menu (and this was DISCONTINUED in K v3.5 ... actually SUSE D/C'ed it in 3.4 but one could install it 3rd party).  Once you select the programs (or there was and option to select all) the you hit ok and voila ... updated menus without the need to manually edit the menu.  Yes, the same menu "editor" is available in both versions.... however, have fun entering 30 or more new programs into said menu...lots of fun!  Especially considering there used to be a "program" that would automatically add the majority of new or non-traditional entries via said gui.

Can you post a screenshot of this program in KDE 3? Thanks. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 24 January 2010 16:40:38 Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

This isn't Microsoft Windows, stop trying to make it the same. And having to zoom the desktop in and out to get to other apps that are running _is_ a step backward.

Zooming UI/ZUI is going to be removed from Plasma Desktop for KDE 4.5 - it was an approach that hasn't worked, either ergonomically or as regards performance. I expect that its replacement will be designed at the Plasma developer meeting here in February. Will -- Will Stephenson, KDE Developer, openSUSE Boosters Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Will Stephenson wrote:

And 'sync' every 30 and on every unmount? ;)

It's twice on unmount isn't it? Otherwise the walls fall down. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 26 January 2010 08:37:36 am Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

1/2 of the plasmoids aren't configurable, so if your system

differs in any appreciable amount from the plasmoid dev then you may have issues and then either stick with it and deal (aka Half baked plasmoid) or drop it and "hope" you'll find something that might work... Take the many versions of weather plasmoids...

Yes, exactly! Please, please comment on these issues (even the closed ones, as they are still valid for the most part):

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167132 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=168579 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=182193 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=185447 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=193015 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=196307 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=193802 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164355

Ah man! There was a reason I dropped from the beta programs . I have been very torn between my loyalty for SuSE <note spelling=old style> and the changes that Novell has imposed. Having people like Mantel and other members of the original team leave didn't help. There came a point when I realized the any contributions I might add would most likely <and apparently usually> be superseded by a Novell project exec. Truth be told I'm using K4 now but only because the folder view feature became more functional and it resembled what I have come to expect from a desktop environ. Also truth be told if a could afford a new MAC tower I'd be there already (especially considering one can run windows programs in a virtual environ now with little or no problems,.. meaning my old games will work). As it is now half the features that K4 offers are useless IMHO. It wasn't until recently that I moved over and this was because k4.3.x or x.4.4 versions seem more developed. I just don't understand why SuSE, a primary contributor and promoter of KDE for all these years would have a KDE package that was vastly (yes vastly) inferior and incomplete that say Mandriva or Ubuntu (hell even RH had a better KDE package for a while). The boils down the De Icaza/Ximian push that's all Novell IMHO. Novell is insistent on pushing GTK and Gnome, gtk because of license over QT.. which isn't an issue so much anymore. Overall, I guess my dis-taste for the plasma/plasmoid in general is my reason for avoiding the issue overall. Most plasmoids are oversized, ugly, kludgy, and more or less tailored to the dev that made it.... And I thought the dev environ for GNOME was an issue? As soon as one realizes that other distros seem to be able to put together a more functional/less glitchy K4 package than "openSUSE" then the sooner one will realize that this isn't an issue so much with the devs at openSUSE as it with the management/executive direction various projects are given - this becomes further apparent when one review the policies and strategies that Novell put in place in previous decades ( I mean lets not forget who gaves the SCO saga... Mostly ex- Novell execs). If I run into any showstoppers I file a bug report... I just don't have the time (or inclination of late) to shake out K4 and track bugs. Ciao, Curtis. -- BEWARE! Spammers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Those throwing objects at the alligators will be asked to retrieve them! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hello, On Tue, 26 Jan 2010, G T Smith wrote:

AFAIK Firefox (and Thunderbird) are gtk based not qt based. Almost every other desktop window manager is gtk based [..] KDE is somewhat unique in relying on Qt.

No. There's quite a bunch using neither, e.g. WindowMaker. -dnh -- "But you should never let rules overrule common sense - if you do, you end up doing stupid things" -- Linus Torvalds -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* kanenas@hawaii.rr.com [01-26-10 18:47]:

If you want *anyone* from the kde3 stallwarts to ever like your 4.4 or more, why don't you start by *DISABLING ALL* THE IRRITATING AND USELESS CRAP BY DEFAULT!!!* how'z that for an idea? I am sure many have asked for it, please count my vote too.... I will certainly refuse to look at any kde4 any more it until that is done as a minimum. Then and only then can I compare functionality, and then and only then you can start pointing at alll the useless *cool* things one can enable. or give us PERMANENTLY remove howto's:)

humm, is this a demand or just a mildly worded request? You are including payment, yes? -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On January 25, 2010 10:06:43 am Istvan Gabor wrote:

Why do KDE developers think that people who invested a lot of time to learn how to use KDE3 now will start this learning curve again? I am sure that my parents won't, they will keep using KDE3. Even if it isn't perfect there are no showstoppers in it for most of its users. KDE4 is full of showstoppers.

Yes, it was, and they're getting less and less. I refused to use KDE 4.0 and 4.1, found 4.2 barely usable and can tolerate KDE 4.3 reasonably well on my Lenovo laptop. It isn't nearly as polished as KDE 3.5.10 was, or as reliable and it does not have all the features KDE 3.5 had. It certainly is now usable, however, and I expect when OpenSuse 11.3 comes out with KDE 4.4 comes out, I'll convert the other 4 computers I run.

And how could it happen that a distribution like SUSE/openSUSE which is/was (?) famous for its reliability, stability and user friendliness included that buggy, unstable KDE4 as default KDE, and expelled KDE3 to build service?

They like having the newest and latest in the distro to compete with other distros, they didn't realize how unuseable KDE 4 was, especially for power users, nor did they really know how annoyed and frustrated KDE 3.5.10 users would be. Second, they didn't dump KDE 3.5.10. They left it in until OpenSuse 11.1, and you can still install it with 11.2 although it's more work now.

Why the KDE developers claimed their less-than beta quality product stable back then, when KDE 4.2 came out? (Now they say that it will be stable, usable at version 4.2 in August.)

I wouldn't blame KDE for OpenSuse switching, in my view, prematurely. And don't you mean KDE 4.4? We're using 4.3.4 now. -- Robert Smits Email bob@rsmits.ca -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 26 January 2010 05:57:29 pm Bob Smits wrote:

On January 25, 2010 10:06:43 am Istvan Gabor wrote:

...

Why do KDE developers think that people who invested a lot of time to learn

how to use KDE3 now will start this learning curve again? I am sure that my parents won't, they will keep using KDE3. Even if it isn't perfect there are no showstoppers in it for most of its users. KDE4 is full of showstoppers.

Yes, it was, and they're getting less and less. I refused to use KDE 4.0 and 4.1, found 4.2 barely usable and can tolerate KDE 4.3 reasonably well on my Lenovo laptop. It isn't nearly as polished as KDE 3.5.10 was, or as reliable and it does not have all the features KDE 3.5 had.

It certainly is now usable, however, and I expect when OpenSuse 11.3 comes out with KDE 4.4 comes out, I'll convert the other 4 computers I run.

...

And how could it happen that a distribution like SUSE/openSUSE which is/was

(?) famous for its reliability, stability and user friendliness included that buggy, unstable KDE4 as default KDE, and expelled KDE3 to build service?

They like having the newest and latest in the distro to compete with other distros, they didn't realize how unuseable KDE 4 was, especially for power users, nor did they really know how annoyed and frustrated KDE 3.5.10 users would be.

Second, they didn't dump KDE 3.5.10. They left it in until OpenSuse 11.1, and you can still install it with 11.2 although it's more work now.

...

Why the KDE developers claimed their less-than beta quality product stable

back then, when KDE 4.2 came out? (Now they say that it will be stable, usable at version 4.2 in August.)

I wouldn't blame KDE for OpenSuse switching, in my view, prematurely. And don't you mean KDE 4.4? We're using 4.3.4 now.

I agree with Istvan. I've been using KDE 4.3.95 (devel version of 4.4) and it's getting more stable and functional. And like previous versions (read 3.x) it has returned to certain features, such as being able to switch to the tree view setting in the Control Center/personal settings gui. Other distros have had this since... say, late 4.1, early 4.2. The plasmoids don't crash anywhere near as much as they did in previous version of K4 and are actually functional to a minimum degree one would expect. I still am very frustrated with the lack of config feature to KDE overall, and especially so with the plasmoids. I have had K3 installed always and up until very recently didn't spend much time in K4 at all - basically I'd update the k4 packages and then login to so how well or badly it was coming along. Having a neat features gui/eye candy is all fine and dandy. But, up until lately I really couldn't get a lot of things done in K4 because something would crash and I'd find myself in a quasi init 3 level and have to restart the desktop - which often meant I lost some work in one form or another, not what I would consider prime time/load it on the office PCs ready. I still struggle to see how K4 would be a fit for an office such as a realtor or travel agency, etc, etc... Cheers, Curtis. -- BEWARE! Spammers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Those throwing objects at the alligators will be asked to retrieve them! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dotan Cohen skrev:

...

I know you are trying to help Dotan, but I just cannot find any compelling reason to move to KDE4. I just don't have the time NOR the inclination to figure out how to make KDE4 work like KDE3. Especially since I can still use KDE3. I don't share the new direction that the KDE devs have decided upon.

That's fine, you don't have to use it! You certainly have no obligation, quite the opposite. I just want to know what the problems are so that I can help fix them.

...

I'm using a friend's machine that has KDE4 and it's annoying. I move the mouse to far when going to the file menu and the screen jumps with that annoying choose a window.

You can disable that in System Settings. It is the first thing that I disable on a new KDE 4 install!

...

I could go on and on.

Please, please do! I want to know.

...

Once they get it so I can make it work and look like KDE3 and it's faster, then I will re-evaluate it.

They won't. You will be able to do the same things, but it won't look the same.

Skimming this thread, the idea of instating a "KDE3 style" pops up, similar to having the main menus Classic or that new compartmentalized style. BR, Gudmund -- This message and any replies to it is scanned by http://www.fra.se. Please direct any complaints about this to them. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 2:29 AM, Will Stephenson wrote:

On Wednesday 27 January 2010 02:12:58 Bob Smits wrote:

...

On January 24, 2010 12:10:40 am Dotan Cohen wrote: <snip> One of the things that really irked me about the move from KDE3 to KDE4 was the loss of the secure file erasure facility in Kgpg, with no replacement in sight.

I'm gradually getting used to running KDE4 on one machine while keeping everything else as KDE3 for the time being, and for the most part, KDE4 is quite tolerable. Some parts are really great, but having a gui secure file eraser is quite missing.

User-level Shred was always a "fake sense of security" tool.  Explanation here:

http://www.krusader.org/handbook/basic.html

Will

Will, I think the utility of shred is far better than that link states and if there are users that would like to use it, it should be re-instated. My critique of the link you sent:

...

"Moderns file systems use journalisation."

Journals in general don't have the file data in them, they contain file metadata. (Yes, ext3 now has data journaling support, but it is by no means a true statement to infer all journals include copies of file data.)

...

"But keep in mind that if you want to be 100% shure that it's impossible that someone can read a deleted file, you need to destroy your harddrive hardware ..."

If that is an effort to say that once data is written to a specific sector, it is forever recoverable via laboratory means (advanced magnetic microscopes), then it is a false statement in all likelihood. We can never know what some extraterrestrial being can recover from a disk drive, but 21st century humans are restricted to the known sciences. Even the USA NIST claims that a sector on a 20GB or denser drive overwritten with a single pass of data makes the previous data unrecoverable via laboratory means. Unfortunately the basis of their statement is a reference to a NSA (National Security Agency) document that is not available to the public. (FOI request was rejected iirc.)

...

""

I see nothing about SSDs / Flash. Now this is where there is an extremely valid argument that shred is useless. Many of these devices dynamically assign a new erase block every time there is a write operation. Thus the old data is left in a unallocated erase block, even though you think you just overwrote it. Not good. Fortunately, it seems that some SSDs will immediately put that unallocated erase block into an internal erase queue so within a few milliseconds / seconds it does get erased. Unfortunately some don't seem to do that, so there is no easy way for the user to know if a shred operation is safe on a SSD / flash drive. My theory for them agrees with the link you posted. (ie. Use a hammer) Grreg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 27 January 2010 01:45, wrote:

On Monday 25 January 2010 10:56:22 pm Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

...

I know you are trying to help Dotan, but I just cannot find any compelling reason to move to KDE4.  I just don't have the time NOR the inclination to figure out how to make KDE4 work like KDE3.  Especially since I can still use KDE3.  I don't share the new direction that the KDE devs have decided upon.

That's fine, you don't have to use it! You certainly have no obligation, quite the opposite. I just want to know what the problems are so that I can help fix them.

...

 I'm using a friend's machine that has KDE4 and it's annoying.  I move the mouse to far when going to the file menu and the screen jumps with that annoying choose a window.

You can disable that in System Settings.

...

It is the first thing that I disable on a new KDE 4 install!

That should tell you something Dotan!

It does, the thing is annoying. So what, you can change it easily.

If you want *anyone* from the kde3 stallwarts  to ever like your 4.4 or more,

It's not _my_ 4.4. I'm a user, like you, not a dev.

why don't you start by *DISABLING ALL* THE IRRITATING AND USELESS CRAP BY DEFAULT!!!*

The usual reason given is that "nobody will know that it's there". So apparently they throw all this glitz in our face so that we will know it's there, and let us disable what we don't like.

how'z that for an idea? I am sure many have asked for it, please count my vote too....

Here? File an issue: http://bugs.kde.org

I will certainly refuse to look at any kde4 any more it until that is done as a minimum.

You might like the Netbook remix, then.

Then and only then can I compare functionality, and then and only then you can start pointing at alll the useless *cool* things one can enable. or give us PERMANENTLY remove howto's:)

It seems that you would like a ~/.kde folder with everything disabled. If I send you one as a tarball, would that help? Should I remove all the panel and toolbars and icons and colour schemes and menu items? Disable all keyboard shortcuts? How would you open any applications or System Setting to change anything? In other words, I doubt that you want everything removed. Let me know what you want removed, and I'll try to help. But don't make me guess what you want removed, tell me. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

One of the things that really irked me about the move from KDE3 to KDE4  was the loss of the secure file erasure facility in Kgpg, with no replacement in sight.

Really? I don't use Kgpg but that would be a critical feature. Have you asked about that on the KDE PIM list? Would you like me to? -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

naw, just another mild (:)) comment from the kde3 stallwarts camp:) what would you expect when the ones who are asking for input for kde4 improvement, they consistently admit that they themselves disable a bunch of kde4 "features" that kde-3-ers complain about!!!!

You confuse us. _I_ asked what features you would like to see. _Someone_else_ implemented a bunch of features that you don't like. I do not represent KDE, do not code for KDE, and do not take responsibility for the actions of KDE developers.

now, about the payment.....no payment, not a bill either, just free input...

That input is very much appreciated! I would prefer that you treat me with a bit of respect, but so long as you make relevant, productive suggestions then I am willing to tolerate abuse. And you did make suggestions: you would like a KDE 4 configured as similar to KDE 3 as possible. I personally will not have the time to create such a default configuration for you to use, but it is possible and I hope that someone will take the initiative. Why not you? -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Skimming this thread, the idea of instating a "KDE3 style" pops up, similar to having the main menus Classic or that new compartmentalized style.

Yes, very much needed. Can you create such a ~/.kde profile? -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Here are a few more features I'd like to have in KDE4:

The ugly ballon tooltips for panel widgets should go away. I want normal tooltips.

Disable plasma panel tooltips https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211593

I would like to have Crystal SUSE icon theme with the green startup menu icon (for openSUSE 11.x)

The Crystal icon theme is available, and you will have to file an issue with Suse regarding the green menu icon. I file KDE issues, not distro-specific issues.

I would like to set independently the font sizes of time and date of the panel digital clock

wish: allow user to change size of font in digital clock plasmoid https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=185447

I absolutely need manual hiding button on both end of the panel; lack of this is a showstopper for me

Manual hiding of panel https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158556

I need the 'no theme / classic X cursor theme' for mouse

Distro issue. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dotan Cohen skrev:

...

Skimming this thread, the idea of instating a "KDE3 style" pops up, similar to having the main menus Classic or that new compartmentalized style.

Yes, very much needed. Can you create such a ~/.kde profile?

Sorry, I've been pretty much off everyday Linux usage for quite a while, for a large part because of problems with installations not working in more ways than I care to mention, paired with changes in KDE I didn't have time to make friends with. If I get around to doing such a thing, I will definitely share it though. BR, Gudmund-- This message and any replies to it is scanned by http://www.fra.se. Please direct any complaints about this to them. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 28 of January 2010, Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

One of the things that really irked me about the move from KDE3 to KDE4  was the loss of the secure file erasure facility in Kgpg, with no replacement in sight.

Really? I don't use Kgpg but that would be a critical feature. Have you asked about that on the KDE PIM list? Would you like me to?

No need to. It would be also a non-functional feature. With current filesystems that employ journaling and what not it is not possible to have a secure file erasure feature in KGPG that would be actually secure. -- Lubos Lunak openSUSE Boosters team, KDE developer l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 28 of January 2010, Tero Pesonen wrote:

On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 11:34 +0100, Lubos Lunak wrote:

...

On Thursday 28 of January 2010, Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

...

One of the things that really irked me about the move from KDE3 to KDE4 was the loss of the secure file erasure facility in Kgpg, with no replacement in sight.

Really? I don't use Kgpg but that would be a critical feature. Have you asked about that on the KDE PIM list? Would you like me to?

No need to. It would be also a non-functional feature. With current filesystems that employ journaling and what not it is not possible to have a secure file erasure feature in KGPG that would be actually secure.

I am not following you.

Do you mean that GnuPG front-ends do not make sense on systems running journaling filesystems? I.e., making key management, for example, easier to a GPG novice is vain if they employ, say, XFS or ext3 instead of ext2?

Read again. Pay special attention to the part saying "secure file erasure". -- Lubos Lunak openSUSE Boosters team, KDE developer l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hi Dotan, since you are asking for feature requests, I thought I would chime in too. I loaded kde 4.4 on my computer to see how it works. Then I tried to do some work with it by loading a ldif address file into both Thunderbird and Evolution. I use Thunderbird for my personal email and to receive emails for a newsletter that I write. I use Evolution exclusively for the opensuse mail list. When I tried to load the ldif file, I was able to import it to both programs in a jiffy. But the ldif file isn't importing the current addresses from the current file, even though the file name I am importing from is the correct one. It is importing the address book from the previous file, near as I can figure. It is also not importing all the addresses in the file. After that, I decided I was done messing with them so I tried to eject the cd from the cd drive, and couldn't figure out how to do it with any gui commands. I tried: 1. Letting the little popup thingy in the taskbar show which drives had cd's in them, and trying to get the cd to eject from there. No joy. 2. Going to the My Computer plasmacon on the desktop and opening it, clicking on the icon next to the drive with the cd in it to see if it would eject. No joy, so I tried to right click on the drive in the list in the My computer window. Also no joy. 3. Opening Dolphin and going to the media file, finding my cd and trying to right click to get a dropdown list with an eject command. No joy. 4. Pressing the eject button on the drive. No joy, no messages telling me what I am doing wrong. I finally shut down the computer with the cd in it, I am pretty sure from using the other Kde4.x's that I will be able to eject it after restarting the computer. Maybe in your reply you will be able how to simply and easily eject the cd after I am finished using it. But if you have to tell me, I think it counts as being a non-intuitive feature in kde 4.4. I haven't loaded kde 4.x on my computer that I use regularly because of so many quirky little things in the kde 4.x's like this that just slow me down and render the kde 4.x desktops a pain to use. I decided to stay with Suse 11.1 and kde 3.5 until kde gets these things worked out for the new version. Thanks, Mark -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 17:51 -1000, kanenas@hawaii.rr.com wrote:

naw, just another mild (:)) comment from the kde3 stallwarts camp:) what would you expect when the ones who are asking for input for kde4 improvement, they consistently admit that they themselves disable a bunch of kde4 "features" that kde-3-ers complain about!!!!

I don't. I think the defaults are good. I even enable more effects on my systems. I also see usability wins when I show things to windows users. There are things that can be improved, for example the whole 'activity' thing, but that looks like it will get a major rewrite in 4.5, so hopefully that will kill off my final niggle I also think many of the things in kde4 have made my life easier as a user, and it gets better with each release. There are some genuine kde3 features missing in kde4 (manual panel hiding, lacking features in konsole sessions etc), but for the most part, I got used to the kde4 replacement ideas fairly quickly and with 4.2 I was satisfied, and with 4.4 I am very happy with it As for you, it sounds like you're not really a kde3 user, you sound more like someone who would be happier with twm (unless that popup menu is too much glitz for you) Note that kde3 also got complaints from people who thought it was too bloaty and made too many things to emulate windows. As I recall, the complaints came from many of the people who now sing its praise and complain about kde4 (which in many ways move away from windows behaviour - albeit in the direction of behaving like Mac, the Expose function you ridiculed in kde is one of the most popular usability functions in OS X for example) Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:52, Gudmund Areskoug wrote:

...

OK, something is wrong with your local config then.... I just tried it in my KDE4.4 (4.3.95) install, and popped in a CD.  The device notification popped up.  I clicked it and opened the CD in Dolphin... I was able to eject the CD just fine using your 1 and 3 (the only 2 I tried).

Perhaps he didn't notice the minuscule eject button. I did too at first.

I still think such alternatives should be available through right-clicking - too.

OK.. tested again here on 4.3.95... 1. Insert CD. 2. Select open in Dolphin in the popup. 3a. While viewing the contents of the CD in Dolphin, right click on the CD in the list of drives on the left. I've got Eject <vol name> in the context menu. 3b Click the Device notifier. there is an eject button on the right side of the listed CD 3c Go to My Computer, and there is an eject button to the right of the listed CD 3d Pressing eject on the CD drive itself ejects the CD.... So all methods tried in the OPs mail.. work on KDE4.4 C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 28 January 2010 19:30, Mark Misulich wrote:

Hi Dotan, since you are asking for feature requests, I thought I would chime in too.

I loaded kde 4.4 on my computer to see how it works.  Then I tried to do some work with it by loading a ldif address file into both Thunderbird and Evolution.  I use Thunderbird for my personal email and to receive emails for a newsletter that I write.  I use Evolution exclusively for the opensuse mail list.

When I tried to load the ldif file, I was able to import it to both programs in a jiffy.  But the ldif file isn't importing the current addresses from the current file, even though the file name I am importing from is the correct one.  It is importing the address book from the previous file, near as I can figure.  It is also not importing all the addresses in the file.

Evolution and Thunderbird are not KDE programs, so I cannot help you there. If you want to try in Kontact, the KDE PIM, I'll help but I've never used LDAP or LDIF before.

After that, I decided I was done messing with them so I tried to eject the cd from the cd drive, and couldn't figure out how to do it with any gui commands.  I tried:

Maybe in your reply you will be able how to simply and easily eject the cd after I am finished using it.  But if you have to tell me, I think it counts as being a non-intuitive feature in kde 4.4.

Agreed, if it is not intuitive then it is a bug. I will lay with some audio and data cds and get back to you in a few minutes on that. Thanks for the tip.

I haven't loaded kde 4.x on my computer that I use regularly because of so many quirky little things in the kde 4.x's like this that just slow me down and render the kde 4.x desktops a pain to use.  I decided to stay with Suse 11.1 and kde 3.5 until kde gets these things worked out for the new version.

And the best way to get the quirks fixed is to let me know about them. Thanks! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton skrev:

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:52, Gudmund Areskoug wrote:

...

...

OK, something is wrong with your local config then.... I just tried it in my KDE4.4 (4.3.95) install, and popped in a CD. The device notification popped up. I clicked it and opened the CD in Dolphin... I was able to eject the CD just fine using your 1 and 3 (the only 2 I tried). Perhaps he didn't notice the minuscule eject button. I did too at first.

I still think such alternatives should be available through right-clicking - too.

OK.. tested again here on 4.3.95...

This is one place I went wrong. Plain vanilla openSUSE 11.2 here, so probably KDE 4.3.

1. Insert CD. 2. Select open in Dolphin in the popup. 3a. While viewing the contents of the CD in Dolphin, right click on the CD in the list of drives on the left. I've got Eject <vol name> in the context menu. 3b Click the Device notifier. there is an eject button on the right side of the listed CD 3c Go to My Computer, and there is an eject button to the right of the listed CD 3d Pressing eject on the CD drive itself ejects the CD....

So all methods tried in the OPs mail.. work on KDE4.4

I'd have to restart that laptop to double-check. No more time today. BR, Gudmund -- This message and any replies to it is scanned by http://www.fra.se. Please direct any complaints about this to them. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Perhaps he didn't notice the minuscule eject button. I did too at first.

I still think such alternatives should be available through right-clicking - too.

Please, please say that here and contest the WONTFIX resolution: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=216628 -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dotan, this reply is not to bug you, this was the last message in the thread. Another few notes/questions about KDE 4 desktop: I don't get how come mouse and keyboard option settings for the desktop go under Computer administration in kde contorl center. What is the logic behind it? I do not like that logout and lock screen links/commands are suboptins of the leave menu. This is awkward. I can't understand why 1) unlocking panel (in case its locked), 2) right clicking the panel, 3) moving mouse over "Panel options", 4) then moving over and clicking "Panel settings", 5) moving over and clicking the desired widget 6) dragging the widget to the new position, 6) and finally close panel settings is better solution to move an applet than 1) right click desired applet, 2) select "move applet" 3) drag and release applet at the new position. Could a KDE developer explain this? I don't understand why logging out from KDE4 desktop takes 4-5x more time than from KDE3 (2 secs vc 8-10 secs). This lag is annoying. Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On January 28, 2010 02:22:02 am Tero Pesonen wrote:

On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 11:13 +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

...

One of the things that really irked me about the move from KDE3 to KDE4 was the loss of the secure file erasure facility in Kgpg, with no replacement in sight.

Really? I don't use Kgpg but that would be a critical feature. Have you asked about that on the KDE PIM list? Would you like me to?

Google tells there's something called Kgpg-KDE4 or KDE4-kgpg (depending on the distro.)

Tero Pesonen

Yes, it's there but it's been crippled by removing the shred function. -- Robert Smits Email bob@rsmits.ca -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 13:18 -0800, Bob Smits wrote:

On January 28, 2010 02:34:42 am Lubos Lunak wrote:

...

On Thursday 28 of January 2010, Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

...

One of the things that really irked me about the move from KDE3 to KDE4 was the loss of the secure file erasure facility in Kgpg, with no replacement in sight.

Really? I don't use Kgpg but that would be a critical feature. Have you asked about that on the KDE PIM list? Would you like me to?

No need to. It would be also a non-functional feature. With current filesystems that employ journaling and what not it is not possible to have a secure file erasure feature in KGPG that would be actually secure.

This doesn't make any sense whatever. If kpgp file shredding worked with opensuse 11.0 and KDE3 and ext3, why wouldn't it work for 11.2 and ext3, the same file system?

I think the point Lubos was making was that it never worked. It was a false sense of security. If for no other reason than that a file system is free to relocate blocks when you write to a file and simply mark the old blocks as unused Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 28 January 2010 22:31, Istvan Gabor wrote:

Dotan, this reply is not to bug you, this was the last message in the thread.

Another few notes/questions about KDE 4 desktop:

I don't get how come mouse and keyboard option settings for the desktop go under Computer administration in kde contorl center. What is the logic behind it?

Where would you prefer them to be?

I do not like that logout and lock screen links/commands are suboptins of the leave menu. This is awkward.

You know what to do: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152110

I can't understand why 1) unlocking panel (in case its locked), 2) right clicking the panel, 3) moving mouse over "Panel options", 4) then moving over and clicking "Panel settings", 5) moving over and clicking the desired widget 6) dragging the widget to the new position, 6) and finally close panel settings is better solution to move an applet than 1) right click desired applet, 2) select "move applet" 3) drag and release applet at the new position. Could a KDE developer explain this?

You know what to do: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205402 Notice that it is WONTFIX, so make a stink (but be respectful of the devs).

I don't understand why logging out from KDE4 desktop takes 4-5x more time than from KDE3 (2 secs vc 8-10 secs). This lag is annoying.

I really don't know. It's never bothered me. Try asking on the KDE mailing list, CC me if you do. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not read all list mail. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 19:48 +0100, Clayton wrote:

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:52, Gudmund Areskoug wrote:

...

Perhaps he didn't notice the minuscule eject button. I did too at first.

No, I did notice it but it isn't working. I have used it before to eject CD's/DVD's on earlier 4.x installations on the same computer.

...

I still think such alternatives should be available through right-clicking - too.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

...

I don't get how come mouse and keyboard option settings for the desktop go under Computer administration in kde contorl center. What is the logic behind it?

Where would you prefer them to be?

Well, I'd put them under User Settings/Hardwer setting along with Sound, Multimedia, and Display as well. Computer administration for me is practically System administration. Now kcontrol has both terms, it's disturbing.

...

I do not like that logout and lock screen links/commands are suboptins of the leave menu. This is awkward.

You know what to do: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152110

I dded a comment.

...

I can't understand why 1) unlocking panel (in case its locked), 2) right clicking the panel, 3) moving mouse over "Panel options", 4) then moving over and clicking "Panel settings", 5) moving over and clicking the desired widget 6) dragging the widget to the new position, 6) and finally close panel settings is better solution to move an applet than 1) right click desired applet, 2) select "move applet" 3) drag and release applet at the new position. Could a KDE developer explain this?

You know what to do: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205402

Added a comment too.

...

I don't understand why logging out from KDE4 desktop takes 4-5x more time than from KDE3 (2 secs vc 8-10 secs). This lag is annoying.

I really don't know. It's never bothered me. Try asking on the KDE mailing list, CC me if you do.

I will see. Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 28/01/10 20:31, Istvan Gabor wrote:

I do not like that logout and lock screen links/commands are suboptins of the leave menu. This is awkward.

It's a workaround, but if you switch to the Lancelot menu I believe you can have Lock/Logout on the main menu. Another workaround is to use the Lock/Logout plasma applet. Another(!) workaround is just to get used to Krunner (Alt-F2 + "logout" + enter = done!). Personally I hardly ever open my application menu anymore.

I can't understand why 1) unlocking panel (in case its locked), 2) right clicking the panel, 3) moving mouse over "Panel options", 4) then moving over and clicking "Panel settings", 5) moving over and clicking the desired widget 6) dragging the widget to the new position, 6) and finally close panel settings is better solution to move an applet than 1) right click desired applet, 2) select "move applet" 3) drag and release applet at the new position. Could a KDE developer explain this?

I think the reasoning is that when locked, right clicking an applet should display configuration options of the applet, not of Plasma. Plasma configuration (e.g. applet positions, panel positions, etc.) is only accessible when the desktop is unlocked. It is awkward though :(

I don't understand why logging out from KDE4 desktop takes 4-5x more time than from KDE3 (2 secs vc 8-10 secs). This lag is annoying.

Could be any number of reasons. Unlike system bootup (bootchartd) I don't know a good way of profiling user login/logout and so I don't know what you could possible compare to or investigate. Regards, Tejas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 01/28/2010 06:07 PM, Tejas Guruswamy wrote:

On 28/01/10 20:31, Istvan Gabor wrote:

...

I do not like that logout and lock screen links/commands are suboptins of the leave menu. This is awkward.

It's a workaround, but if you switch to the Lancelot menu I believe you can have Lock/Logout on the main menu. Another workaround is to use the Lock/Logout plasma applet. Another(!) workaround is just to get used to Krunner (Alt-F2 + "logout" + enter = done!). Personally I hardly ever open my application menu anymore.

...

I can't understand why 1) unlocking panel (in case its locked), 2) right clicking the panel, 3) moving mouse over "Panel options", 4) then moving over and clicking "Panel settings", 5) moving over and clicking the desired widget 6) dragging the widget to the new position, 6) and finally close panel settings is better solution to move an applet than 1) right click desired applet, 2) select "move applet" 3) drag and release applet at the new position. Could a KDE developer explain this?

I think the reasoning is that when locked, right clicking an applet should display configuration options of the applet, not of Plasma. Plasma configuration (e.g. applet positions, panel positions, etc.) is only accessible when the desktop is unlocked. It is awkward though :(

...

I don't understand why logging out from KDE4 desktop takes 4-5x more time than from KDE3 (2 secs vc 8-10 secs). This lag is annoying.

Could be any number of reasons. Unlike system bootup (bootchartd) I don't know a good way of profiling user login/logout and so I don't know what you could possible compare to or investigate.

Regards, Teja

Well that's a lot better than mine Suse 11.1 login 4.4 3 minutes 20 sec 3.5 35 sec logout 4.4 40 sec 3.5 4 sec -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is Robert Cunningham Sr. Physics Laboratory Coordinator /RSO -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

It's a workaround, but if you switch to the Lancelot menu I believe you can have Lock/Logout on the main menu.

I replace the Kmenu with Lancelot on all KDE 4 systems. I love it to death! The only feature missing for me is this: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=190774

Another(!) workaround is just to get used to Krunner (Alt-F2 + "logout" + enter = done!). Personally I hardly ever open my application menu anymore.

Nice, thanks! I did not know about that! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il Please CC me if you want to be sure that I read your message. I do not read all list mail. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 29 January 2010 00:36:35 Robert Cunningham wrote:

Well that's a lot better than mine Suse 11.1 login 4.4 3 minutes 20 sec 3.5 35 sec

3 *minutes* to log in? wow Either you have some very slow programs autostarting, or something is wrong with your installation, because I have never seen any kde4 installation that slow to log in. How do you define 'login'? I assume your starting point is pressing enter on the login screen, but when do you stop counting?

logout 4.4 40 sec 3.5 4 sec

40 seconds is also fairly slow. Do you have programs open? KDE will wait for running programs to quit before logging out Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 28 of January 2010, Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 5:34 AM, Lubos Lunak wrote:

...

 No need to. It would be also a non-functional feature. With current filesystems that employ journaling and what not it is not possible to have a secure file erasure feature in KGPG that would be actually secure.

--  Lubos Lunak  openSUSE Boosters team, KDE developer  l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org

I know a fair amount about the topic and the above seems overly pessimistic to me about the success of userspace induced wiping.

Lubos, if you're knowledgeable about the topic, would you either respond to my post on this thread from yesterday:

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.suse.general/293911/

Or point me at a discussion on a kde list where they discussed it.

I don't know much about the topic other than http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/shred_and_secure_delete_tools_wi... or various other google hits for "kde shred removed". -- Lubos Lunak openSUSE Boosters team, KDE developer l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On January 24, 2010 11:11:11 am Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

I want to declare that the only thing I have against KDE 4 is some missing features that were in KDE 3.

When these features are implemented in KDE 4 too, I think KDE 4 will be great.

Great, please tell me what those features are!

A working, fully featured kdepim - not one without distribution lists, that doesn't maintain categories and requires addressbooks be split into folders would be nice - in short kdepim 3.5.10 would be better. -- Robert Smits Email bob@rsmits.ca -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Am Samstag, 4. Juni 2011, 23:48:35 schrieb Bob Smits:

A working, fully featured kdepim - not one without distribution lists, that doesn't maintain categories and requires addressbooks be split into folders would be nice - in short kdepim 3.5.10 would be better.

I use IMAP and suspend to disk. On resume the imap kio was always broken and I had to restart kontact. This works with akonadi + kdepim 4.6. IMAP in general did not work as reliable and fast with KDE 3 or kdepim 4.4 as it does with akonadi – although kdepim 4.6 is just close to its first developers release and will certainly need more time to mature. Also, KDE3's filtering was far worse at GUI blocking than the current kdepim. A personal thing is the arrangement of the panes in kmail. In KDE3 it is not possible to have the three panes in a vertical order or to have more than one line per message in the message list. No issue with that with kdepim 4.x. The mail search is faster in kdepim 4.6 as well. So from my point of view fixing an addressbook is rather simple compared to fixing kdepim 3 and implementing those missing features which are as relevant to others as distribution lists are to you. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org