Try uninstalling pulseaudio - cured my sound problems when watching digital TV.

Hmmm that seems to have fixed both the audio annoyances, and the graphics fps issues in games. Strange how PulseAudio appears to also have been affecting graphics performance... still testing that one to be sure the graphics are working right.... C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

...

...

Try uninstalling pulseaudio - cured my sound problems when watching digital TV.

Hmmm that seems to have fixed both the audio annoyances, and the graphics fps issues in games. Strange how PulseAudio appears to also have been affecting graphics performance... still testing that one to be sure the graphics are working right....

The important thing is that your audio and graphics hassles have been solved.

Re the reason why: I suspect - as I expressed some months ago with another, similar problem, I had - is caused by the dbus being clogged up by the offending application in this instance pulseaudio (or the IRQ being monopolised by the rogue app.).

Well.... yes and no. The audio problems were definitely solved by removing PulseAudio (and likely for reasons you described above), but the problems with graphics/fps slowdowns in games were not truly solved until I installed a 2.6.26 kernel from the 11.0 tree. The default pae kernel from 11.1 (2.6.27) is causing some very noticeable slowdowns, particularly in games like World of Warcraft in Wine/Cedega, and not just on my computer... several other people are grousing about the same issue in the Cedega community. It's not every 2.6.27 kernel though... seems tied to specific distributions like openSUSE,and maybe even specific hardware combinations... maybe. I'm not sure of all the details yet. It seems to be something to do with the scheduler... and as you roll back to previous kernels the performance increases... eg a 2.6.24 kernel is about 10 to 15% better for gaming than a 2.6.27 kernel. Not so important for those who don't game :-) C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 10 January 2009, Clayton wrote:

...

The default pae kernel from 11.1 (2.6.27) is causing some very noticeable slowdowns, particularly in games like World of Warcraft in Wine/Cedega, and not just on my computer... several other people are grousing about the same issue in the Cedega community. It's not every 2.6.27 kernel though... seems tied to specific distributions like openSUSE,and maybe even specific hardware combinations... maybe. I'm not sure of all the details yet. It seems to be something to do with the scheduler... and as you roll back to previous kernels the performance increases... eg a 2.6.24 kernel is about 10 to 15% better for gaming than a 2.6.27 kernel. Not so important for those who don't game :-)

A little more on this.. it seems that more people are reporting similar issues.. specifically with openSUSE 11.1 and 11.1 on nVidia cards.

The opensuse 11.1 kernel isn't preemptible because of some errors. Try compiling the opensuse or vanilla one with CONFIG_PREEMPT set.

See: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=125947 for example

So.. it appears it's not just me that is getting annoyed with this. I've been checking with other people running other distros, and the same kernel versions, and they are not seeing these issues with OpenGL applications.

I have not yet tried moving to a 64bit kernel - I'm DLing the ISO for that now though, and plan to switch from a 32it PAE kernel to the full 64bit kernel/install and see if that clears up the problems.

Is this worth reporting as a bug? Will anyone be interested in looking into it? Not really sure what to provide for information on a bug report since it seems to be a real subjective issue.

C.

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I forgot to add, you should also put: ,---- | echo 1024 > /proc/sys/dev/hpet/max-user-freq `---- in your /etc/rc.d/boot.local to use the "High Precision Event Timer" for a/v sync if your program supports it. For mplayer put: ,---- | rtc-device=/dev/hpet | `---- in you mplayer config file. MythTV should use it automatically (IIRC). Don't know about other programs. Charles -- I did this 'cause Linux gives me a woody. It doesn't generate revenue. (Dave '-ddt->` Taylor, announcing DOOM for Linux)

On Saturday 10 January 2009, Charles Philip Chan wrote:

auxsvr@gmail.com writes:

...

The opensuse 11.1 kernel isn't preemptible because of some errors. Try compiling the opensuse or vanilla one with CONFIG_PREEMPT set.

No true, it is just not set. I change mine to "low latency desktop". Also the "Timer frequency" in the defaults SuSE kernek is set to for server use. You should change it to either 300 Hz (for a balance if you do run servers) or 1000 Hz

gzip -dc /proc/config.gz | grep PREEMPT returns CONFIG_PREEMPT_NOTIFIERS=y CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE=y # CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY is not set # CONFIG_PREEMPT is not set I'm not sure what you mean. I had sound issues with an emulator, and switching to a preemptible kernel (CONFIG_PREEMPT set) improved the situation noticeably.

For best multimedia performance, here is a list of settings:

,----

| General Setup: | Disable "Optimize for size" | Disable "Control Group support" | Disable "Group CPU scheduler" | | Processor type and features: | Enable "Tickless System (Dynamic Ticks)" | Enable "High Resolution Timer Support" | Choose your CPU type in "Processor family" | Choose "Preemptible Kernel (Low-Latency Desktop)" as "Preemption Model" | Choose "1000Hz" as "Timer frequency"

`----

Charles

Regards, Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 10 January 2009, Charles Philip Chan wrote:

auxsvr@gmail.com writes:

...

I'm not sure what you mean. I had sound issues with an emulator, and switching to a preemptible kernel (CONFIG_PREEMPT set) improved the situation noticeably.

I am talking about your sentence here:

,----

| The opensuse 11.1 kernel isn't preemptible because of some errors.

`----

There are no errors, it is just not set in the default config.

The errors I refer to are kernel bugs that cause hangs in systems with preemption enabled (see https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=447974 for details).

You might also want to get rid of Pulseaudio. This is one of the first thing I did- Pulseaudio's latency is terrible.

Agreed.

Charles

Regards, Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

...

The errors I refer to are kernel bugs that cause hangs in systems with preemption enabled (see https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=447974 for details).

Oh, I am not using Factory. I did not know about this bug- sorry for the noise. However, the default kernel in regular version is still in essence a server kernel. IMHO, I think SUSE should offer different kernels for different audiences- this we can learn from Ubuntu.

It's not noise. I wasn't aware of this either. Question is... is the only realistic solution to recompile? Yuck. I can do this, but... it has been a while. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

...

It's not noise. I wasn't aware of this either. Question is... is the only realistic solution to recompile? Yuck. I can do this, but... it has been a while.

I believe so. However, I am used to compiling my own kernel (I was a big fan of the CK patchset while it lasted), so it doesn't bother me.

OK rebuilt the kernel using the recommended tweaks mentioned earlier in this thread and ran some tests. Initial results show a 37% increase in frame rates in OpenGL applications. That is rather stunning. I will be doing some more testing here, if I can get similar results in other OpenGL apps I will be very happy. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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The errors I refer to are kernel bugs that cause hangs in systems with preemption enabled (see https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=447974 for details).

Oh, I am not using Factory. I did not know about this bug- sorry for the noise. However, the default kernel in regular version is still in essence a server kernel. IMHO, I think SUSE should offer different kernels for different audiences- this we can learn from Ubuntu.

It's not noise. I wasn't aware of this either. Question is... is the only realistic solution to recompile? Yuck. I can do this, but... it has been a while.

You can always use the kernel from opensuse 11.

You mean the older 2.6.25 or 2.6 26 kernel? I did roll back to a 2.6.26 kernel from the 11.0 tree, but that really is a poor solution to a problem. The 2.6.26 kernel was better... frame rates were more stable, but still had issues with periodic slowdowns... instead of dropping from 70fps to 9fps like I was with the .27 kernel, I would see 70fps dropping to 30fps with only occasional issues with under 10fps. I am back on the latest 32 bit 2.6.27 kernel from the 11.1 tree and am recompiling right now with the options C.P. Chan recommended. it will be interesting to see if this makes any difference. I am also going to move over to 64-bit when I get a chance to test there as well. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

...

Question is... is the only realistic solution to recompile? Yuck. I can do this, but... it has been a while.

I really do not consider that the solution is to recompile the kernel. I could do it but I haven't recompiled a kernel for zonks, just like you.

Actually it was dead easy to do. It hasn't changed since the Stone Age (last time I built my pown kernel was probably about that long ago). It's well documented here: http://en.opensuse.org/Configure%2C_Build_and_Install_a_Custom_Linux_Kernel (although the steps could use some updating and minor tweaking). Total time to rebuild the kernel was about 1h20m including the time spent poking around in the options just to see what was there. The result - as i said in a previous post - was a 40% increase in performance in OpenGL apps. I see no difference on the desktop... only in the games. The test app used was Call Of Duty 4 running on Cedega 7.0.0, and using the "timedemo" feature running a pre-recorded multiplayer game session. The FPS was recorded with full AA 4x and all graphics options on high with the default kernel and then with the rebuilt kernel. There was a 37% increase in FPS with the new kernel. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton wrote:

...

...

Question is... is the only realistic solution to recompile? Yuck. I can do this, but... it has been a while.

I really do not consider that the solution is to recompile the kernel. I could do it but I haven't recompiled a kernel for zonks, just like you.

Actually it was dead easy to do. It hasn't changed since the Stone Age (last time I built my pown kernel was probably about that long ago). It's well documented here: http://en.opensuse.org/Configure%2C_Build_and_Install_a_Custom_Linux_Kernel (although the steps could use some updating and minor tweaking). Total time to rebuild the kernel was about 1h20m including the time spent poking around in the options just to see what was there.

The result - as i said in a previous post - was a 40% increase in performance in OpenGL apps. I see no difference on the desktop... only in the games.

The test app used was Call Of Duty 4 running on Cedega 7.0.0, and using the "timedemo" feature running a pre-recorded multiplayer game session. The FPS was recorded with full AA 4x and all graphics options on high with the default kernel and then with the rebuilt kernel. There was a 37% increase in FPS with the new kernel.

C.

I've spent the past several days fooling around with recompiling the kernel (as per suggestions) and doing some testing. I do not play games and do not have the 'timedemo' testing app. you mention so cannot provide speed results equivalent to yours. However, I can provide the results produced by glxgears[1] (see below). My system is 32-bit, running oS11.1 with KDE4.2RC1; CPU is Athlon XP 3200 and the video is an nVidia 6600GT. It took 1hr39min to compile the (new) kernel. The default/pae kernel had the Timer Frequency set to 275 Hz which I reset to 1000Hz; I also reset the CPU Family to correctly reflect the AMD I have. After the compiled kernel was installed I found that I was getting very poor results when running glxgears[1]. To see if the results would change I did 2 things: * compiled nVidia drivers 188-06, 188-17 and 188-22 against the new kernel; and * turned ON and OFF the Composite setting in /etc/X11/xorg.conf for each nVidia driver. The results are: Driver Composite OFF (fps) Composite On (fps) 188-06 ~3650 ~1722 188-17 ~3650 ~1730 188-22 ~2900 ~1752 Note the drop in fps for 188-22 when Composite was OFF (but the slight increase for ON). For all the tests the driver in xorg.conf was nvidia and not the simple nv. There is one more (important, for me at least) factor about the 188-22 driver (see also next paragraph) - which happens to be the latest driver from nVidia: I have a digital TV card installed, use either kaffeine or xine, and found that with the -22 driver even with Composite OFF the High Definition (HD) channels had their picture shimmering and wobbling like jelly on a plate. The channels were not watchable. Switching back to the 188-17 driver all HD channels were perfect irrespective of whether Composite was OFF or ON. Re HD channels. Before I recompiled the kernel I could not really successfully watch any HD channels because the picture always pixielated and the sound dropped out/stuttered/made clicking noises. This problem is now gone with the new compiled kernel and the picture and sound are now perfect[2]. Hope the above are of use to you and to others. As far as I am concerned I will now recompile the kernel each time there is a new one available. [1] I know that glxgears is not a benchmarking tool but it's the only one I have to use. [2] Just for information: in kaffeine one can set the Deinterlace Quality and mine is set to the third highest setting. Ciao. -- "With the portion of mankind that is above average one may speak of higher things; with those below it, one may not." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Yas say wrote:

so you do not want use mplayer for the tv stream?

What "tv stream"?

but i guess you could blame the AMD processor.

What are you talking about?

I have nvidia & tv tuner card on this intel quad machine & it is around 30%

30% of what/compared to what?

with glxgears & other processes.

What do you get without glxgears and other processes?

it's now easy to compile a kernel: http://www.linuxforums.org/desktop/the_newbies_guide_to_compiling_your_first...

before GRUB got popular, we used to copy built kernel & edit files manually.

Wow!

i recompiled this kernel last night: uname -a Linux gbint 2.6.27.7-9-pae #1 SMP Fri Jan 16 22:02:30 EST 2009 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux & i want to do it again for nvidia.

Congratulations, well done! -- "With the portion of mankind that is above average one may speak of higher things; with those below it, one may not." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Charles Philip Chan wrote:

Basil Chupin writes:

[pruned]

...

Who would have thought that the kernel in oS is designed for a server (but then oS *is* the test bed for the commercial version, right? - stupidos!) and can be made to perform better if compiled with the options described in this thread?

The default kernel is adequate for most desktop use. It is just not a low latency kernel for heavy multimedia work. This is why I suggest OpenSUSE put out different kernels for different purposes- a server kernel, a balanced kernel for masses and a low lantency kernel for heavy multimedia.

Good suggestion - give the user the choice of which version of kernel to install. However, there is one parameter which needs catering for: the actual CPU brand.model. Perhaps there could be a module which could be selected by the user and then used by the kernel to get max. performance without having to recompile the kernel. For example, the default pae kernel installed here has the CPU Family set to generic 586 and I had to reset it to Athlon when recompiling it. Oh, perhaps this should/could be a new thread, but what will happen to the system using a compiled kernel (as you suggested earlier and for which I thank you) when a new kernel version for the copy of existing oS is released by openSuSE? Will such a release be automatically applied against the pae-named kernel, which is still sitting in /boot or will the newly compiled kernel be affected? Do you know? Ciao. -- "With the portion of mankind that is above average one may speak of higher things; with those below it, one may not." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 10 January 2009 09:28:36 am Charles Philip Chan wrote:

auxsvr@gmail.com writes:

...

The errors I refer to are kernel bugs that cause hangs in systems with preemption enabled (see https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=447974 for details).

Oh, I am not using Factory. I did not know about this bug- sorry for the noise. However, the default kernel in regular version is still in essence a server kernel. IMHO, I think SUSE should offer different kernels for different audiences- this we can learn from Ubuntu.

Charles

That we can learn from own SUSE history, Knoppix, Ubuntu ... It is easier to explain user to use different start point, then how to compile kernel with different options. The needs are something like this: - starts anywhere - multimedia - server - experimental It would be easier to get system installed and then fine tune in fashion that is easy to understand for majority. The experimental group can have more then one kernel, or more then one provided online. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org