[opensuse] Re: YaST lilo support
Time of a new thread: Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2011-12-08 17:39, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
I'm not fudding. I remember the discussion here when it was decided to drop lilo. Yes, the package can be installed, but the configuration section was reported dropped from yast bootloader code.
I argued that we keep the code, but mark the functionality as "might not work". It still works quite well, but does need some fixing.
So they just left the code there as it was at the moment. And I assume that bugs are not attended.
Yes, there is no active developer to take care of them. I have however been using since yast lilo config since it was deprecated (which I think is the correct expression). It has bugs (lack of updates rather), sure. I did consider taking over support myself, but with general interest being quite low, sofar I have just used the proposed config, and fixed the rest manually when I install. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-12-09 15:57, Per Jessen wrote:
Yes, there is no active developer to take care of them. I have however been using since yast lilo config since it was deprecated (which I think is the correct expression). It has bugs (lack of updates rather), sure. I did consider taking over support myself, but with general interest being quite low, sofar I have just used the proposed config, and fixed the rest manually when I install.
Then, it is difficult to tell newcomers for which legacy grub fails to try lilo instead. When this happens, in the forums we tell them to install ubuntu instead, and then boot openSUSE from it. It has happened more than once. Also, there are the people with EFI and/or GPT partitions... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7iKAoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UkcACfddx/M7XccZsfh+0YmnH52kqr ivMAn2XKzd9a0pwk0PafAMON9+EfbTH5 =Tstj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
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On 2011-12-09 15:57, Per Jessen wrote:
Yes, there is no active developer to take care of them. I have however been using since yast lilo config since it was deprecated (which I think is the correct expression). It has bugs (lack of updates rather), sure. I did consider taking over support myself, but with general interest being quite low, sofar I have just used the proposed config, and fixed the rest manually when I install.
Then, it is difficult to tell newcomers for which legacy grub fails to try lilo instead.
Yep. Does it happen a lot?
Also, there are the people with EFI and/or GPT partitions...
Do they cause any issues? (the partitions, not the people). About a year ago, I remember testing a WD 3Tb disk, GPT required, worked well with lilo. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (11.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 04:46:59PM +0100, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2011-12-09 15:57, Per Jessen wrote: [ 8< ] Also, there are the people with EFI and/or GPT partitions...
Do they cause any issues? (the partitions, not the people). About a year ago, I remember testing a WD 3Tb disk, GPT required, worked well with lilo.
And there is elilo. There is the YaST -> System -> Boot Loader module which allows to enable elilo. Look for the tab labled with 'Boot Loader Installtion'. But (re)directing people from the openSUSE wiki to Ubuntu is a much, much better approach. Lovely. Now my usual question on this: Is there any bug report or feature requeast on this topic to track this issue? I can't say if elilo support is also available as part of the install workflow. Maybe a year back I installed a system where UEFI was enabled and it worked out of the box with elilo. As this was a SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 11 SP 1 IIRC I expect the same feature is part of openSUSE 11.4 or at least 12.1. At all it might be better to my blood pressure to skip such unfounded complains. ;) Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
Lars Müller wrote:
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 04:46:59PM +0100, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2011-12-09 15:57, Per Jessen wrote: [ 8< ] Also, there are the people with EFI and/or GPT partitions...
Do they cause any issues? (the partitions, not the people). About a year ago, I remember testing a WD 3Tb disk, GPT required, worked well with lilo.
And there is elilo. There is the YaST -> System -> Boot Loader module which allows to enable elilo. Look for the tab labled with 'Boot Loader Installtion'.
But (re)directing people from the openSUSE wiki to Ubuntu is a much, much better approach. Lovely.
That was also what got me a little upset. Lovely indeed. :-( -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.4°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-12-09 18:42, Per Jessen wrote:
Lars Müller wrote:
But (re)directing people from the openSUSE wiki to Ubuntu is a much, much better approach. Lovely.
That was also what got me a little upset. Lovely indeed. :-(
You are welcome to get into the forum and tell those newcomers how to get it working without installing Ubuntu. :-) I'm serious. We do the best we can. The helpers there can not guide people to use lilo if it is not supported or they do not know how to do it. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7ijqIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WVsACeN/hnCSc3x1Z5aTV2j2Hh10db Sl8An2YCQzKsqUvCrTDkanHE/5udcoE2 =o/ps -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 11:41:38PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2011-12-09 18:42, Per Jessen wrote:
Lars Müller wrote:
But (re)directing people from the openSUSE wiki to Ubuntu is a much, much better approach. Lovely.
That was also what got me a little upset. Lovely indeed. :-(
You are welcome to get into the forum and tell those newcomers how to get it working without installing Ubuntu. :-)
Today there is an alternative you again ignore. Please check this mail http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2011-12/msg00622.html And elilo and efibootmgr had already been part of the initial openSUSE 11.4 release. There's also a lot documentation available on the net about how to handle GUID Partition Table (GPT) disks in general. And you don't have in mind (or ignore this by intention?) how small the amount of users is which might get bitten by the issues caused by hard drives with a size bigger than 2 GB. The pointers you gave to the forums.o.o are only in two cases real issues with disks of a size beyond 2 GB. They both had been on openSUSE 11.4 when the YaST support to handle elilo had not been there or at the same level as with 12.1. All the others are more general complains or issues. My final summary regarding support for a GPT drive is: With openSUSE 11.4 it needs some manual tweaking as the required software doesn't get installed by default and YaST doesn't yet support it. For a beginner the journey ends at this point. For a half way motivated and skilled person it might be possible to get it working. With openSUSE 12.1 it works and is supported by the YaST boot loader module too.
I'm serious. We do the best we can. The helpers there can not guide people to use lilo if it is not supported or they do not know how to do it.
See Per's answer. It still works. And if there are cases where it fails try to find people to understand the code and work with them on a fix. This is all build upon (more or less) easy to read programming languages (perl, bash, ycp). To complain and blame doesn't fix issues. Please stop claiming openSUSE sucks cause lilo doesn't longer get the same attention as other available boot loaders get. lilo is more or less a dead horse. I can't request anything from you. Neither to contribute to the software used by the project nor to the documentation in the wiki (for example about how to use elilo). But I'm asking you to stop demotivating motivated people by your way to communicate. Suggesting to use Ubuntu cause you feel frustrated as openSUSE isn't or better wasn't able to handle GTP disks is a negative approach. By this I fear you'll frustrate and demotivate others to use openSUSE too. That's most annoying as your criticism isn't realy valid. Therefore I ask you again to stop this, please. See as an positive example how those handled the dying sax2. They started to work on sax3. That's how to turn something into a positive momentum. Thanks. Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
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Please stop claiming openSUSE sucks cause lilo doesn't longer get the same attention as other available boot loaders get. lilo is more or less a dead horse.
I never said openSUSE sucks. Those are your words, not mine. And I'm not a proponent of lilo, either. That's Per.
I can't request anything from you. Neither to contribute to the software used by the project nor to the documentation in the wiki (for example about how to use elilo). But I'm asking you to stop demotivating motivated people by your way to communicate.
Suggesting to use Ubuntu cause you feel frustrated as openSUSE isn't or better wasn't able to handle GTP disks is a negative approach. By this I fear you'll frustrate and demotivate others to use openSUSE too. That's most annoying as your criticism isn't realy valid. Therefore I ask you again to stop this, please.
I will if you promise to contribute in the forum to explain those users having problems how to do it with openSUSE. :-| Meanwhile, we, not I, have to tell users to install a small Ubuntu in another partition, and tell its grub 2 to boot openSUSE instead. We are not telling them to use Ubuntu, but how to get openSUSE working. You say there is another way: ok, I believe you. But I do not know how to guide people on it. You do, so you go there and explain to them. Cooperate on the forums! If you don't, you don't have the right to tell me not to help people the best I can in the manner I, or we, know. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk7kBQwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9X8BACfV0Xd0XQFhG0pybBftgG7KM0l +a0An3WAbtr3yP/9lRRsJlucOuBHM+5H =QaDI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 02:19:01AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2011-12-10 at 02:31 +0100, Lars Müller wrote:
Please stop claiming openSUSE sucks cause lilo doesn't longer get the same attention as other available boot loaders get. lilo is more or less a dead horse.
I never said openSUSE sucks. Those are your words, not mine.
But you express it in between the lines. You demonstrate it by suggesting to people to install Ubuntu to get openSUSE starting up _even_ if it is not required. What else then expressing 'this stuff sucks very well' is this? Let me guess your reply: "I'm only trying to help!"
I can't request anything from you. Neither to contribute to the software used by the project nor to the documentation in the wiki (for example about how to use elilo). But I'm asking you to stop demotivating motivated people by your way to communicate.
Suggesting to use Ubuntu cause you feel frustrated as openSUSE isn't or better wasn't able to handle GTP disks is a negative approach. By this I fear you'll frustrate and demotivate others to use openSUSE too. That's most annoying as your criticism isn't realy valid. Therefore I ask you again to stop this, please.
I will if you promise to contribute in the forum to explain those users having problems how to do it with openSUSE. :-|
Why should I do this? It's more than enouth that I try to explain people here that they're suggesting something bad. Either you get it or you miss it. That's up to you. Point the users to this list. Point them to the list archive of this thread.
Meanwhile, we, not I, have to tell users to install a small Ubuntu in another partition, and tell its grub 2 to boot openSUSE instead. We are not telling them to use Ubuntu, but how to get openSUSE working.
Puhh. You're not willing to see the alternatives. That's ok for me. One last time: the alternative is elilo.
You say there is another way: ok, I believe you. But I do not know how to guide people on it. You do, so you go there and explain to them. Cooperate on the forums!
If you don't, you don't have the right to tell me not to help people the best I can in the manner I, or we, know.
I explained how it works. Check the archive. Try it. And if you had read my full posting, the full thread or would be able to quote well you would be aware I'm not telling you not to help. What I'm requesting from you is to stop spreading rumours and direct people in the worng direction. Do what ever you like to do at these web based discussion thing. I don't care. Demonstrate how skilled you're but don't do it on this list after it got explained to you how it works. That's all I'm requesting. Well, even the suggested approach might not work. Then we have to address it by defect reports to bugzilla. That's the workflow we use at this project to address issues. Oh, well that's either such a web based thing. ;) Thanks and have a nice Sunday. Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
Carlos E. R. wrote:
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On 2011-12-09 18:42, Per Jessen wrote:
Lars Müller wrote:
But (re)directing people from the openSUSE wiki to Ubuntu is a much, much better approach. Lovely.
That was also what got me a little upset. Lovely indeed. :-(
You are welcome to get into the forum and tell those newcomers how to get it working without installing Ubuntu. :-)
I accept that there is a problem, but I'm not very keen on the proposed solution. Especially not to newbies.
I'm serious. We do the best we can. The helpers there can not guide people to use lilo if it is not supported or they do not know how to do it.
No, I wasn't suggesting that was the right approach either, but if this is an issue that appears perhaps a couple of times per month, at least we should have a bug report (maybe there already is one that is not being looked at?) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (6.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2011-12-11 at 15:54 +0100, Per Jessen wrote:
No, I wasn't suggesting that was the right approach either, but if this is an issue that appears perhaps a couple of times per month, at least we should have a bug report (maybe there already is one that is not being looked at?)
There are least openfates. switch to a UEFI-ready bootloader by default https://features.opensuse.org/311043 There are issues - one I just noticed: View this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=464069 GPT disks and 12.1 - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk7ml3AACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XjeQCfUoMEB7zUscPfBIqJdfIYykrG eOsAnAn38zrwlno28Wz93hcunUIG8l2W =BovD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-12-09 16:46, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
Then, it is difficult to tell newcomers for which legacy grub fails to try lilo instead.
Yep. Does it happen a lot?
A lot, no. Now and then. About once a week, maybe less, maybe more, I haven't counted. There is a forum dedicated to install, boot and login problems, so we do see a lot more questions than you get in the mail lists. Over 20 thousand questions in two years in this subforum alone.
Also, there are the people with EFI and/or GPT partitions...
Do they cause any issues? (the partitions, not the people). About a year ago, I remember testing a WD 3Tb disk, GPT required, worked well with lilo.
Yes. Searching on the subject line only (I can not search contents via nntp with thunderbird), I find two from October: View this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=466077 install to 3tb hdd View this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=466660 Expert partitioning with /boot/efi and GPT disk label December: View this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=469327 EFI Boot Splash missing (this one is actually using elilo, but on a MacBook Air) Older posts: View this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=448105 EFI installation help View this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=435580 Re: status of UEFI support? Related, problems ahead: View this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=466910 Possible GRUB Problem. Trouble coming for Linux with UEFI and Windows 8??? View this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=465604 Microsoft confirms that UEFI 'secure boot' might lock out Linux from new PC's And that's searching subject lines only; you know there are people that say in the tittle as little as "does not work" and let you figure out the problem. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7ilJEACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WRAACfV9kSvsQmDxP4sXWXJJVxeD5X 52sAoI0i+4hzhMuhQBw6/m5E1tjjXoLP =rn9r -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2011-12-10 at 00:06 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Then, it is difficult to tell newcomers for which legacy grub fails to try lilo instead.
Yep. Does it happen a lot?
View this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=469772 Re: destroyed new lenovo v470 with os 12.1 There is very little hard info on this one, but he is aparently using elilo on the recomendation of the installer against grub. EFI boot. System is not bootable, seems a boot loop of some kind. Forum is down at the moment, the link might not work. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk7pw8wACgkQtTMYHG2NR9V7JQCfWxjKkSPsn6Dh2TKGqHdbeH08 iIAAni6+ChBWdFME13yvvDSf/kJgfIpM =VD9F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2011-12-15 at 10:54 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2011-12-09 16:46, Per Jessen wrote:
Then, it is difficult to tell newcomers for which legacy grub fails to try lilo instead.
Yep. Does it happen a lot?
View this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=470470 Re: Help! Getting error in Parted Magic! At one point openSUSE requests an /boot/efi which does not exist and fails to install. The thread is long and confusing. They are trying ubuntu (boots ok) or fedora. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk7/HfgACgkQtTMYHG2NR9X8hQCffpkAP7iPBMFxI9GoF8vTsg2/ TOYAni+TjZEBe6w/1pBuULAEPh1LVf/T =Xt0S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Thursday, 2011-12-15 at 10:54 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2011-12-09 16:46, Per Jessen wrote:
Then, it is difficult to tell newcomers for which legacy grub fails to try lilo instead.
Yep. Does it happen a lot?
View this thread: http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=470470 Re: Help! Getting error in Parted Magic!
At one point openSUSE requests an /boot/efi which does not exist and fails to install. The thread is long and confusing. They are trying ubuntu (boots ok) or fedora.
I _am_ considering taking a closer look at the yast lilo code. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (5.8°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (4)
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Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Lars Müller -
Per Jessen