On Thu, 2002-09-05 at 07:08, Max Webb wrote:

Thanks. I know about the 1970's dummy terminal/ mainframe concept, and knew that PTS stood for pseudo terminal (and "s" I thought might be session). So its pseudo terminal slave....Now here is the strange part. I know that I have one true hardware terminal :0 (what ever it is called) and I had one terminal emulator open (Konsole) which would be pts/0 . I didn't have any other terminal emulator sessions open. Why the pts/1 then ?!?!

Konsole can handle multiple tabbed sessions within one window. It is possible that you have two sessions running in your konsole window. Look at it carefully since konsole will open that second session for you every time if have it open when konsole is closed. Best Regards, Keith -- LPIC-2, MCSE, N+ Once in a moment, it all comes to you As soon as you get it, you want something new Got spam? Get spastic http://spastic.sourceforge.net

Max Webb wrote:

First, Thank you for your advice. Since I have made as much as possible invisible in Konsole, I reenabled display toolbar & menu bar and checked for another open session. There was none. Again I ran $who and got :

max@linux:~> who max :0 Sep 5 17:13 (console) max pts/0 Sep 5 17:13 max pts/1 Sep 5 17:45 max@linux:~>

I also checked TOP and only have one instance of Konsole running. So thats not it, but lets keep trying to figure this one out. Thanks.

How about the xconsole that runs if you boot into init5. -- Joe & Sesil Morris New Tribes Mission Email Address: Joe_Morris@ntm.org Web Address: http://www.mydestiny.net/~joe_morris Registered Linux user 231871 God said, I AM that I AM. I say, by the grace God, I am what I am.

Yes my Xserver enabled SuSE 8.0 install has Xconsole (where the shell bulletins/ error messages are displayed) enabled. But I agree that being the source of the extra listed session may be a red fish. I am not as much a newbie as I sometimes make my self out to be. There are a lot of holes in my *nix knowledge ... which as you see I am trying to fill. I aspire to be a proto-hacker in the larval stage ( search terms "computer geek" and "larval stage" with package kdict .) For example I know how to work with directories/files, create delete/ mv , change permissions etc. I have also configured and compiled kernels with $make xconfig, make dep, make clean, make bzImage etc, and modules and of course source for binaries. But again I still consider myself a novice. Thanks Max Hmmm. Not sure. On my box the GUI login mechanism creates a console window

which is visible from the login prompt even when no one is logged in. It's so errors and messages from the hardware, etc., can be seen. Although it's an xterm, it's started with the "console" flag so everything sent to the real console gets reflected in it. Perhaps you've got one of those? Perhaps that's a total red herring? :o) I don't know - I've never really thought about it before. You could probably get to the bottom of it given enough effort, but to be honest, as a newbie, there's more interesting and important things for you to explore.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thursday 05 September 2002 05:46 am, Derek Fountain wrote:

...

Now here is the strange part. I know that I have one true hardware terminal :0 (what ever it is called) and I had one terminal emulator open (Konsole) which would be pts/0 . I didn't have any other terminal emulator sessions open. Why the pts/1 then ?!?!

Hmmm. Not sure. On my box the GUI login mechanism creates a console window which is visible from the login prompt even when no one is logged in. It's so errors and messages from the hardware, etc., can be seen. Although it's an xterm, it's started with the "console" flag so everything sent to the real console gets reflected in it. Perhaps you've got one of those? Perhaps that's a total red herring? :o) I don't know - I've never really thought about it before. You could probably get to the bottom of it given enough effort, but to be honest, as a newbie, there's more interesting and important things for you to explore.

...

Also and even more important: You seem very knowledgable

Heh, I learnt all I know from Anders Johansson... ;o) Stick on this list - you'll get to know that name.

...

could you recommend some good (books) UNIX/Linux dictionaries that also contain acronyms like pts (etc) and good definitions. Also, what are some good reference books on Linux/UNIX? or online forums for UNIX/LINUX novices to gain knowledge from? I really need some advice.

I'm probably not the person to ask. I've been using Linux since 1994 and haven't looked at a newbie book or website for many years. If there's something I don't know I either ask here, or look it up on google. I would suggest a separate post to this list asking the question specifically. Asking several questions on one post isn't too successful normally.

...

I really want and need to learn, and not just be a GUI moron.

You've made a good start by subscribing to this list. It's the single best general Linux resource I know of, other than your box itself.

...

P.S. Just bought an IBM Laptop and SuSEd it ... am reading this on a 21" IBM P260 CRT.

Heh. I'm just a contractor, not a proper IBMer. The effect is similar except I get paid more. :o) Until next month when my contract expries! :o(

<control><alt><F2> you will drop out of X and be at the REAL consoles. Login and see what "who" tells you. <alt><F1> thru <alt><F6> are your basic REAL consoles. <alt><F7> is reserved for X.

We're way past the level of info the original poster wanted, but just to clarify this: what you get to when you hit <alt-Fn> is a previously opened *virtual* terminal. These are started at boot time and have specific device files: /dev/ttyX. The one, single, real console is generally on <alt-F1>: /dev/tty0 (or an alternative if reconfigured). The poster was refering to *pseudo* terminals, which don't exist until requested via the master /dev/ptmx interface. At that point the pseudo terminal connection is created-on-demand for the xterm or whatever to use. -- The past: Smart users in front of dumb terminals

Actually, your not past the level of info I requested or understand. None the less, thank you. I am with you. I am not as much a newbie as I sometimes make my self out to be. There are a lot of holes in my knowledge ... which as you see I am trying to fill. I aspire to be a proto-hacker in the larval stage ( search terms "computer geek" and "larval stage" with package kdict .) For example I know how to work with directories/files, create delete/ mv , change permissions etc. I have also configured and compiled kernels with $make xconfig, make dep, make clean, make bzImage etc, and modules and of course source for binaries. But again I still consider myself a novice. Thanks but still.... I still get the following after a regular SuSE KDM-logon for $who with Konsole max@linux:~> who max :0 Sep 5 17:13 (console) max pts/0 Sep 5 17:13 max pts/1 Sep 5 19:44 max@linux:~> obviously pts/1 is my Konsole session But is :0 primary intial session , and pts/0 X-server session ? or is it that pts/0 is the xconsole for error/sys messages <ALT>+<F10> ? Max On Thursday 05 September 2002 06:45 am, Derek Fountain wrote:

We're way past the level of info the original poster wanted, but just to clarify this: what you get to when you hit <alt-Fn> is a previously opened *virtual* terminal. These are started at boot time and have specific device files: /dev/ttyX. The one, single, real console is generally on <alt-F1>: /dev/tty0 (or an alternative if reconfigured).

The poster was refering to *pseudo* terminals, which don't exist until requested via the master /dev/ptmx interface. At that point the pseudo terminal connection is created-on-demand for the xterm or whatever to use.

First, thanks. Ok I understand the following ( I even know that teletypes were primary output devices after the punch cards; I am with you on that part.) about dummy terminals and command prompts in the post punch card days before the almighty Xserver. I am with you. RE: In the beginning......", there was no X and you could only login

to REAL ttys, ie. "boot in ascii mode". But that was a long time ago.

right. ok, I already know about pseudo terminals, teminal emulators, availiable consoles with <ALT>+ IE <ALT>+ . I knew about <ALT>+<F7>. I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT starting additional X sessions and their <ALT> key assignments as in :

By the way, you can have a second X server going, to really make things interesting. Go to a REAL console, like <control><alt><F3> and type in startx -- :1

Now you have :0 on <alt><F7> and :1 on <alt><F8>. Look at the "who" for ptys on <alt><F8>.

THANK YOU! Today has been a good day in that I have learned something new. I thank you. Also I know<ALT>+<F10> is the actual console for shell messages. I still get the following after a regular SuSE KDM-logon for $who with Konsole max@linux:~> who max :0 Sep 5 17:13 (console) max pts/0 Sep 5 17:13 max pts/1 Sep 5 19:44 max@linux:~> obviously pts/1 is my Konsole session But is :0 primary intial session , and pts/0 X-server session ? or is it that pts/0 is the xconsole for error/sys messages <ALT>+<F10> ? On Thursday 05 September 2002 06:03 am, zentara wrote:

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 04:08:53 -0700

Max Webb wrote:

...

Thanks. I know about the 1970's dummy terminal/ mainframe concept, and knew that PTS stood for pseudo terminal (and "s" I thought might be session). So its pseudo terminal slave....Now here is the strange part. I know that I have one true hardware terminal :0 (what ever it is called) and I had one terminal emulator open (Konsole) which would be pts/0 . I didn't have any other terminal emulator sessions open. Why the pts/1 then ?!?!

The pts/1 may be some hidden program you started. All the programs have a point of origin. Maybe pts/1 is some KDE program that needs a console to start.

"In the beginning......", there was no X and you could only login to REAL ttys, ie. "boot in ascii mode". But that was a long time ago.

It looks like you are booting directly into X (the windows system). For your learning experience, try hitting the key combo <control><alt><F2> you will drop out of X and be at the REAL consoles. Login and see what "who" tells you. <alt><F1> thru <alt><F6> are your basic REAL consoles. <alt><F7> is reserved for X.

Once you start X, and create Xterms, they are assigned pty numbers to keep track of them. There is a kernel parameter which sets the limit, I think 256 is the max. The X server number, becomes their reference. The first X server number is :0.

By the way, you can have a second X server going, to really make things interesting. Go to a REAL console, like <control><alt><F3> and type in startx -- :1

Now you have :0 on <alt><F7> and :1 on <alt><F8>. Look at the "who" for ptys on <alt><F8>.

...

Also and even more important: You seem very knowledgable, could you recommend some good (books) UNIX/Linux dictionaries that also contain acronyms like pts (etc) and good definitions. Also, what are some good reference books on Linux/UNIX? or online forums for UNIX/LINUX novices to gain knowledge from? I really need some advice. Thanks again. Max the IBM fan.

I really want and need to learn, and not just be a GUI moron.

P.S. Just bought an IBM Laptop and SuSEd it ... am reading this on a 21" IBM P260 CRT.

THANKS

Max

On Thursday 05 September 2002 02:50 am, Derek Fountain wrote:

...

On Thursday 05 September 2002 10:28 am, you wrote:

...

I attend a small community college in a rural portion of the southwestern U.S. Very few people here even know what Linux is, and most of the people, at my small college in the CIS department, venerate Bill Gates as some sort of diety.

A bit conservative are they? ;o)

...

USER LINE LOGIN-TIME FROM max :0 Sep 4 21:19 (console) max pts/0 Sep 4 21:19 max pts/1 Sep 4 22:51 max@linux:~>

I understand everything but the column "LINE". I know that its the line to a session, but what do the acronyms pts/0 , pts/1 stand for? and I think

:0 means my screen? and what does (console) mean?

pts stands for pseudo terminal slave. A terminal (or console) is traditionally a keyboard/screen combination you sit and type at. Old UNIX boxes would have dozens of them hanging off the back, all connected with miles of cable. A pseudo terminal provides just the same facility only without the hardware. In other words, it's an xterm window or a konsole window, or whatever utility you use. They pop into life as you ask for them and get given sequential numbers: pts/0, then pts/1 and so on. The physical console is the hardware which is actually attached to your box - you probably only have one. That's labelled ":0" and is refered to as the actual "console".

-- Be positive and you will prevail.

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