On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 10:38:55 +0530, Basil Chupin wrote:

On 30/04/12 15:03, Robin Klitscher wrote:

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On 30/04/12 16:32, Basil Chupin wrote:

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My user password, and the root's, was unrecognised - or put another way, every time I entered the password the login screen would reappear.

Have you tried clicking the "Menu" button at the login screen and specifically selecting "KDE Plasma Workplace"?

No, but isn't this the default anyway?

(I didn't have to do this when I upgraded to 4.8.2 on the 32-bit system.)

normally it is, but as i wrote earlier, i've seen this being unchecked after recent updates. if you do try again, please keep the other options i mentioned in mind, too. -- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 30/04/12 15:47, Robin Klitscher wrote:

On 30/04/12 17:08, Basil Chupin wrote:

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On 30/04/12 15:03, Robin Klitscher wrote:

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On 30/04/12 16:32, Basil Chupin wrote:

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My user password, and the root's, was unrecognised - or put another way, every time I entered the password the login screen would reappear.

Have you tried clicking the "Menu" button at the login screen and specifically selecting "KDE Plasma Workplace"? No, but isn't this the default anyway?

(I didn't have to do this when I upgraded to 4.8.2 on the 32-bit system.)

BC

Yes; but I could have been clearer in mentioning that on my 64-bit system after a very recent update to KDE 4.8 I had the same problem, and found that one-time positively selecting the desired desktop environment cured it. In lay terms I guessed that the update had "lost" the default in some way. Stranger things have happened!

Thanks for this, Robin. Phanisvara also mentioned this so I shall pay close attention to this when I go and upgrade to 4.8.2 later tonight. BC -- A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. Sir Winston Churchill -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 30/04/12 15:05, phanisvara das wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 10:02:19 +0530, Basil Chupin wrote:

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Yesterday I installed 12.1 (KDE) from the DVD onto a brand new x86_64 system. Got everything working correctly - and was at peace with myself.

Then I decided to upgrade KDE to v4.8.2 - which I had successfully done on the 32-bit system - using this repository:

http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Release:/48/openSUSE_12.1/

I used "zypper dup --from <x>" - and the upgrade went thru OK.

But then I rebooted the system - and the damn wheels fell off! :'( .

My user password, and the root's, was unrecognised - or put another way, every time I entered the password the login screen would reappear.

Rebooting the system and typing "init 3" at the Grub menu, and then logging in as either user or as root, both the passwords WERE recognised.

As root, and using yast, I reset the user's password but this, again, was not recognised at the login menu (after getting past Grub that is).

Does anyone know why this should have occurred? and how to solve this problem should it happen again?

(I just finished re-installing 12.1 which was the only way I knew how to get my system back.)

for situations like this, i always have more than one (usable) DE or WM installed (no, i don't consider tvm 'usable.') either XFCE, one or both versions of enlightenment, or, like at the moment, awesome. something goes wrong, there's an alternative to re-installing straight away.

An excellent idea! I'll install another DE as a precaution.

what you describe sounds like a video driver problem to me. since you used a fresh install of 12.1, did you install any prop. video drivers yet? if not, or even if yes, adding "nomodeset" to the kernel line might have helped.

As I mentioned, I had everything working OK which included installing the nVidia 295.40 driver to give me 1920x1080p resolution. But nothing would work at the start without first typing "nomodeset" at the beginning of the installation process :-( . Cannot check the media, cannot do memtest - nothing, zilch, until one types in "nomodeset". It is really stupid (to have to type this "nomodeset") to get openSUSE going when both Fedora and Kubuntu simply "get going" without this "nomodeset" nonsense. What's so damn special about openSUSE?! (Stubborn people?)

i've also read about cases (recently) where none of the desktop sessions were selected after a KDE upgrade, and fixing was as easy as choosing "KDE plasma workspace" (or whatever it's called these days).

Which is what Robin suggested a post back. If I strike the problem again I'll try this one out.

if it was the video driver's fault, there should have been something in Xorg.0.log, or perhaps messages. hard to figure out now, since you've reinstalled. are you up for another try?

I shall never be daunted by some stupid piece of software! (famous last words) :-D Yes, I do intend to try it again - but I may just use YaST this time instead of zypper (which I successfully used on the 32-bit system).

i'm sure this can be solved, probably relatively easy, but if you keep bolting at the first sign of trouble...

"I shall not be overcome...."

another thing to try since 12.1 is starting with sysvinit instead of systemd (<F5> in grub), even though this doesn't sound like a systemd issue, but you never know.

I tried this before I re-installed. Didn't solve my problem. BC -- A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. Sir Winston Churchill -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 30/04/12 15:56, phanisvara das wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 11:02:36 +0530, Basil Chupin wrote:

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what you describe sounds like a video driver problem to me. since you used a fresh install of 12.1, did you install any prop. video drivers yet? if not, or even if yes, adding "nomodeset" to the kernel line might have helped.

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As I mentioned, I had everything working OK which included installing the nVidia 295.40 driver to give me 1920x1080p resolution.

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But nothing would work at the start without first typing "nomodeset" at the beginning of the installation process . Cannot check the media, cannot do memtest - nothing, zilch, until one types in "nomodeset".

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It is really stupid (to have to type this "nomodeset") to get openSUSE going when both Fedora and Kubuntu simply "get going" without this "nomodeset" nonsense. What's so damn special about openSUSE?! (Stubborn people?)

stubborn people? of course; otherwise there wouldn't be any openSUSE. gotta be a bit stubborn to persevere against odds, microsoft, and grumbling users like us :)

i add "nomodeset" to the kernel boot parameters. it's not supposed to be needed after properly installing video, but it does no harm.

there was a long discussion somewhere, on one of the mailing lists or forums, with many good and some heated arguments to include nomodeset by default. can't recall any of them right now, but seems the "don't include by default" faction won. what i do remember is to put it into the kernel boot parameters.

Which is totally INCONCEIVABLY STUPID! I suppose that the blurb to type "nomodeset" is mentioned somewhere AFTER you try and boot either the LIVE CD or the DVD - or as mentioned in the 'prerelease notes and known bugs' as in the blurb with respect of Milestone 3 release. But, for chrissake, who reads that crap when you read about a new version of openSUSE being released and you go and download the installation media and then "fire it up"? Sheer, bloody-minded STUPIDITY on somebody's part!

got to scratch it into your long term memory somehow. IIRC you are, like i am, getting on with your years, so short term isn't that reliable anymore :(

Oy, speak for yourself! :-) I am only 39 years old - and have been for quite some time! :-D (My uncle was 82 when he decided that he should raise his age to 40 :-) .) BC -- A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. Sir Winston Churchill -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 30/04/12 16:47, phanisvara das wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 11:59:42 +0530, Basil Chupin wrote:

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Which is totally INCONCEIVABLY STUPID!

that's the beauty of free & open software: if you feel like doing something stupid, you are free to do so! (and we are free to use it or not, of course.)

really can't remember most of the arguments, but i think including "nomodeset" by default would deprive some folks of advanced kernel features, like auto-detecting their video hardware and loading the appropriate drivers. (there's more than nvidia or ATI around.)

I just put together "an advanced" system which the kernel should recognise as having to use "advanced kernel features". This argument which you mentioned is simply pure BS. As I said, Fedora and Kubuntu have no such hassles. They recognise what is being used. I don't think that it would be rocket science to add a few lines of code to some script file which would check for "whatever" and take appropriate action to ensure that the user doesn't face a screen which shows that nothing is happening. Come on now. These aren't the Dark Ages when programmers - sorry, they are now called (wait for it!) ENGINEERS - had no idea what they were doing.

I suppose that the blurb to type "nomodeset" is mentioned somewhere AFTER you try and boot either the LIVE CD or the DVD - or as mentioned in the 'prerelease notes and known bugs' as in the blurb with respect of Milestone 3 release. But, for chrissake, who reads that crap when you read about a new version of openSUSE being released and you go and download the installation media and then "fire it up"?

of course it's mentioned in a million places. i follow a bunch of openSUSE mailing lists & forums, and usually know about these things before they happen to me. it also saves me brain damage from watching TV or too many movies, since i find the openSUSE community more entertaining than most of that.

Yep, it's Amusement Plus the "openSUSE community". Except that the whole thing really is not the least funny.

Sheer, bloody-minded STUPIDITY on somebody's part!

those 'somebodies' probably say the same about us, with equal justification.

No. Definitely NOT. I won't say anything more.

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Oy, speak for yourself! I am only 39 years old - and have been for quite some time! (My uncle was 82 when he decided that he should raise his age to 40 .) got to scratch it into your long term memory somehow. IIRC you are, like i am, getting on with your years, so short term isn't that reliable anymore

LOL! with me that has changed after a couple of serious diseases incl. one major surgery. for a long time my age was stuck at 25, just didn't seem to be able to 'grow up.' now, according to my passport, i'm 55 years old, but feeling like 110. life is strange...

"You are only as old as the woman you feel". Remember this :-) . BC -- The wise man does at once what a fool does finally. Niccolo Machiavelli -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 30/04/12 17:47, phanisvara das wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:05:08 +0530, Basil Chupin wrote:

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As I said, Fedora and Kubuntu have no such hassles. They recognise what is being used.

I don't think that it would be rocket science to add a few lines of code to some script file which would check for "whatever" and take appropriate action to ensure that the user doesn't face a screen which shows that nothing is happening.

-> openFATE; but i think it's there already, rejected.

I have no idea what this openFATE thing is but I can only assume that it is something which is solely run by "the community". And if so then this over-reliance on the "community" thing is one of the Achilles heels of openSUSE because all it takes is one "community member" who may be maintaining/developing/packaging a piece of software to get a pineapple up his rear end and spit the dummy and the whole sheebang goes belly up because there is nobody to control or direct what has or should be done. Take the case of k9copy whose author is Jean-Michel Petit. He got fed up with having to keep the application going for all the various flavours of Linux distros and so gave up developing/maintaining it early last year. I don't think that anyone would consider him not to be a "community member". Now there is nothing which could replace his application unless one goes to something Window's related. BC -- The wise man does at once what a fool does finally. Niccolo Machiavelli -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 01/05/12 19:19, phanisvara das wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:36:03 +0530, Basil Chupin wrote:

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On 30/04/12 17:47, phanisvara das wrote:

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On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:05:08 +0530, Basil Chupin wrote:

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As I said, Fedora and Kubuntu have no such hassles. They recognise what is being used.

I don't think that it would be rocket science to add a few lines of code to some script file which would check for "whatever" and take appropriate action to ensure that the user doesn't face a screen which shows that nothing is happening.

-> openFATE; but i think it's there already, rejected.

I have no idea what this openFATE thing is but I can only assume that it is something which is solely run by "the community".

http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Openfate

it's where you can request new features, and discuss the benefits or problems, yes, with the "community."

Thanks for the URL, I'll have a look at it shortly.

And if so then this over-reliance on the "community" thing is one of the Achilles heels of openSUSE because all it takes is one "community member" who may be maintaining/developing/packaging a piece of software to get a pineapple up his rear end and spit the dummy and the whole sheebang goes belly up because there is nobody to control or direct what has or should be done.

that's life...but i prefer it to having a "dictator for life" who i can't stand.

Better to have someone in control and directing what happens than having a bunch of people pulling in all different directions. You know the adage, "United we stand, divided we fall".

Take the case of k9copy whose author is Jean-Michel Petit. He got fed up with having to keep the application going for all the various flavours of Linux distros and so gave up developing/maintaining it early last year. I don't think that anyone would consider him not to be a "community member". Now there is nothing which could replace his application unless one goes to something Window's related.

i know nothing about k9copy, and at the moment i don't think i want to know more about it.

Why not? It's not an infectious disease nor is it a porno program. BC -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 01/05/12 20:06, phanisvara das wrote:

On Tue, 01 May 2012 14:59:30 +0530, Basil Chupin wrote:

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i know nothing about k9copy, and at the moment i don't think i want to know more about it. Why not? It's not an infectious disease nor is it a porno program.

i wasn't afraid of that; it's just that i don't have any copy needs that can't be satisfied by cp, rsync, or various ways of using konqueror in the GUI. and since you said it (k9copy) wasn't available for linux, why should i bother?

I didn't say that k9copy wasn't available for Linux. It IS available, and I have it installed right now (and have always had it installed since it became available). What I did state is that the author no longer develops it nor supports it (since early last year). You will find k9copy in your list of installable applications in whichever version of oS you have - or any other distro for that matter. Only qualifications are that it is meant for KDE and you have the packman repo selected. BC -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:28:30 +0530, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2012/04/30 11:26 (GMT+0530) phanisvara das composed:

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i add "nomodeset" to the kernel boot parameters. it's not supposed to be needed after properly installing video, but it does no harm.

Oh, but it can...

i'm sure it can, but for me it's necessary, even with nueveau (IIRC). depends on the video hardware and drivers used. i'm NOT saying everybody should include it, no questions asked.

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there was a long discussion somewhere...<snip>

I remember the thread, but not how long ago it ran or the particular subject line, which IIRC was poorly related to the actual very long discussion that ensued.

exactly; not enough to go looking for it now.

The way I understand KMS & nomodeset:

As of 11.3, and since, adding nomodeset during installation only hurts nothing for the installation process itself, which uses a (slow) generic video driver supported by the maximum possible range of video chips.

The problem is the installation process automatically adopts added boot parameters from installation to the installed bootloader stanzas. This means post-installation, nomodeset for those who don't customize bootloader stanzas during installation to explicitly remove nomodeset from them, is turning off KMS, which in turn completely prevents use of FOSS radeon, intel and nouveau drivers, which are the drivers most non-gaming people actually need for normal use.

i'm 'non-gaming people' and have been using nueveau (or whichever way it's spelled) for a while since 12.1. for some reason though everything looks "clearer" with the prop. driver, so i went back to it. perhaps i could have solved this by fiddling with xorg parameters or xrandr, but installing nvidia was easier. didn't know the installer adopted the used kernel parameters; interesting. during the last kernel update 'nomodeset' was automatically removed from my menu.lst, and i had to add it back again.

Proprietary non-FOSS ATI (IIUC) & NVidia (at least) drivers _need_ KMS turned off (via nomodeset) to function.

Whatever method *buntu and Fedora may be using to work around this FOSS vs. proprietary conflict I have no idea. I've several of those installed for occasional use, but never use proprietary drivers with any Linux.

-- phani. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 30/04/12 19:49, Mark Misulich wrote: [.........]

Hi, I had this problem after doing a zypper dup and solved it by doing the following.

I logged in to IceWM instead of KDE. I started yast> software management> kernel. I downgraded my kernel and rebooted. I selected KDE at the login screen and KDE started right up.

Once I was back in KDE, I started yast> software management> kernel and upgraded the kernel. Then I rebooted into the new kernel and KDE without problem.

The use of another DE is most interesting and something which was already suggested Phanisvara. It sounds like a very good idea to have a standby DE available. But you don't say which kernel you were running at the time and to which kernel you downgraded. I am only using the kernel which was installed by default and have not upgraded it (like I did do when running the 32-bit version where I was running version 3.3.x of the kernel). So, which version did you downgrade to when you came across this problem? BC -- The wise man does at once what a fool does finally. Niccolo Machiavelli -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 30/04/12 20:38, Mark Misulich wrote:

On Mon, 2012-04-30 at 20:09 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

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On 30/04/12 19:49, Mark Misulich wrote:

[.........]

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Hi, I had this problem after doing a zypper dup and solved it by doing the following.

I logged in to IceWM instead of KDE. I started yast> software management> kernel. I downgraded my kernel and rebooted. I selected KDE at the login screen and KDE started right up.

Once I was back in KDE, I started yast> software management> kernel and upgraded the kernel. Then I rebooted into the new kernel and KDE without problem. The use of another DE is most interesting and something which was already suggested Phanisvara. It sounds like a very good idea to have a standby DE available.

But you don't say which kernel you were running at the time and to which kernel you downgraded. I am only using the kernel which was installed by default and have not upgraded it (like I did do when running the 32-bit version where I was running version 3.3.x of the kernel). So, which version did you downgrade to when you came across this problem?

BC

-- The wise man does at once what a fool does finally. Niccolo Machiavelli

The kernel that was originally installed was the kernel that was installed in a fresh install. I think the kernel that yast upgraded to in the first system update was 3.1.10 something. I downgraded to the next lower kernel in the versions list, whatever it was, maybe 3.1.9. Once KDE was back up and running, I went back to the highest version available, maybe 3.1.10.

OK, I didn't pay attention to what was originally installed but the present kernel is 3.1.10.

I think the problem may be that the software updates aren't installing correctly to the kernel, but installing the kernel to the updates works. Hence, the kernel version isn't so important as installing the kernel to the updates.

WHOA! to the that last statement :-) . That is what YaST is supposed to do and what zypper is supposed to do - install the correct versions to fit what is being used on the system. The whole thing is called "dependency" thing :-) . I don't ever recall doing an installation/update/upgrade of anything which used the parameter "force". OK, so I am about ready to try to install KDE 4.8.2 once again - after doing some backups of the ~/.mozilla and /.thunderbird directories. Here goes nothing......... BC -- The wise man does at once what a fool does finally. Niccolo Machiavelli -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 01/05/12 00:43, Mark Misulich wrote: [......]

The particular zypper dup that I did that gave me the problem was to try to install kde 4.8 to a fresh OS12.1 install. The method that I detailed above fixed it and got the whole thing working again with kde 4.8. I hope and expect that it will work for you too.

I am sure that you are right but I haven't been able to finish the upgrade to KDE 4.8.2 because the repo on widehat.opensuse.org is locking me out with the error message that I don't have permission to access the repo (all others are OK except this one). BC -- The wise man does at once what a fool does finally. Niccolo Machiavelli -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org