-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Stanislav Baiduzhyi Gesendet: Fr. 25.12.2015 23:34 An: opensuse , Betreff: Re: [opensuse] Re: Moderation on mailing list
On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 11:26 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
God help us all...
I'm reading all of this as uninterested party (no idea who this Carlos person is that everyone seems so in love with), but I really don't understand what are you trying to achieve by all this drama, informational noise and personal attacks? Is there some goal behind all of that?
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht Ende-----
If you are reading all this you are interested. If you are contributing to this thread (even with a quite astonishing comment "that everyone seems so in love...") then you are by all means an interested party.
On the thread in general:
I personally do not think there is a "goal" behind all this. However this is not the first time that I am witnessing a noteworthy amount of aggressiveness of both(!) sides of the story. If a "board" is meant to solve problems and to lower the amount of conflict then, with all the given respect, the current board does with evidence fail. I do say this without evaluating what may be behind the "ban" and without knowledge of the decisional process that brought us here. But if members of a board speak of "permanent" bans and to be "thankful" that for now is only a time limited... You know, if anybody beliefs that whatever permanent ban is "problem solving" than I would advice to study further the acts of Josef Stalin. He was knowledgeable for solving dissent in permanent and definite ways. Very efficient. For the rest I do not recall that this kind of measures and this kind of "menaces" would ever had helped to solve or appease a conflict.
Could we come down to earth and be more respectful with each other? This is addressed to everyone here, not to you or to specific others. I do not know Carlos personally. I do not agree on all he said or contributed on the forum. I never felt terribly "disturbed" by anything.
But specifically I do not understand how anybody could speak about "definitive bans" if s(he) would not be completely foreign to the thought of what should be a project of public contribution and collaboration. Not to mention the failure to promote conflict solving. Because a conflict is never the one of a group and an individual. But of visions and of ways to communicate with each other.
And here lies, IMO, the noteworthiness and the importance of all this thread. As it shows how well current "conflict solving" and "inclusion" goes. And this part needs desperately cure, and with cure I do not mean "bans". But with respectful communication and mediation.
--- Alle Postfächer an einem Ort. Jetzt wechseln und E-Mail-Adresse mitnehmen! http://email.freenet.de/basic/Informationen
On 12/25/2015 06:09 PM, stakanov@freenet.de wrote:
Could we come down to earth and be more respectful with each other?
Yes - as soon as they show they aren't facists, remove carlos's ban, and agologies for their misjudgment.... then we can all civily put it behind us although we will NOT forget. But as long as they act like Facists who censor without reasonable justification, and you would need to STREEEEETCH things pretty far for that, then there is no peace here.
The best thing would be for a consensus of the main contributes to move this list out of the reach of people who have been PROVEN that they can not be trusted. I, unfortunately, have been one who has largely been a receiver of contributions from this list rather than a giver, and can't do it myself.
Carlos, however, actually could.
Good Shabbos to all who are not facists.
Ruben
On Saturday 26 Dec 2015 00:09:45 stakanov@freenet.de wrote:
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Stanislav Baiduzhyi Gesendet: Fr. 25.12.2015 23:34 An: opensuse , Betreff: Re: [opensuse] Re: Moderation on mailing list
On Fri, Dec 25, 2015 at 11:26 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
God help us all...
I'm reading all of this as uninterested party (no idea who this Carlos person is that everyone seems so in love with), but I really don't understand what are you trying to achieve by all this drama, informational noise and personal attacks? Is there some goal behind all of that?
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht Ende-----
If you are reading all this you are interested. If you are contributing to this thread (even with a quite astonishing comment "that everyone seems so in love...") then you are by all means an interested party.
On the thread in general:
I personally do not think there is a "goal" behind all this. However this is not the first time that I am witnessing a noteworthy amount of aggressiveness of both(!) sides of the story. If a "board" is meant to solve problems and to lower the amount of conflict then, with all the given respect, the current board does with evidence fail. I do say this without evaluating what may be behind the "ban" and without knowledge of the decisional process that brought us here. But if members of a board speak of "permanent" bans and to be "thankful" that for now is only a time limited... You know, if anybody beliefs that whatever permanent ban is "problem solving" than I would advice to study further the acts of Josef Stalin. He was knowledgeable for solving dissent in permanent and definite ways. Very efficient. For the rest I do not recall that this kind of measures and this kind of "menaces" would ever had helped to solve or appease a conflict.
Could we come down to earth and be more respectful with each other? This is addressed to everyone here, not to you or to specific others.
I do not know Carlos personally. I do not agree on all he said or contributed on the forum. I never felt terribly "disturbed" by anything.
This is the crux of the problem for all of us, we all feel the same way as you and cannot see any justification for the board to do what they have done. Nobody on this planet totally agrees with everything anyone else says.
But specifically I do not understand how anybody could speak about "definitive bans" if s(he) would not be completely foreign to the thought of what should be a project of public contribution and collaboration. Not to mention the failure to promote conflict solving. Because a conflict is never the one of a group and an individual. But of visions and of ways to communicate with each other.
And here lies, IMO, the noteworthiness and the importance of all this thread. As it shows how well current "conflict solving" and "inclusion" goes. And this part needs desperately cure, and with cure I do not mean "bans". But with respectful communication and mediation.
Alle Postfächer an einem Ort. Jetzt wechseln und E-Mail-Adresse mitnehmen! http://email.freenet.de/basic/Informationen
On Sat, Dec 26, 2015 at 12:09 AM, stakanov@freenet.de wrote:
If you are reading all this you are interested. If you are contributing to this thread (even with a quite astonishing comment "that everyone seems so in love...") then you are by all means an interested party.
I can only compare it with trying to code something while wife is watching film in the same room. The only thing I care about in this case is the noise-to-signal ratio on this particular list for me, if I should set my filter to mark everything as read as soon as it hits inbox and not to participate here any more. And right now that ratio looks very bad, all the "user support" or constructive discussions of all sorts are effectively stopped.
On the thread in general: I personally do not think there is a "goal" behind all this. However this is not the first time that I am witnessing a noteworthy amount of aggressiveness of both(!) sides of the story.
I did not meant a thread in general, I meant one particular immensely annoying person, a single person generates enough noise and enough flame to both drive people away and make this list close to useless. That, in my opinion, should be more than enough for permanent ban.
As for the philosophical part, I am goal oriented person, as long as it keeps Leap the perfect distro for me I have absolutely nothing against banning everyone and anything who or what makes it harder to achieve this goal. The same story with hiring people, I would better skip the super-smart but disruptive candidate in favour of simpleton who can do his job without disrupting the entire team. So neither comparison with stalin nor with hitler does not touch me, I don't care.
-
ianseeks -
Ruben Safir -
stakanov＠freenet.de -
Stanislav Baiduzhyi