On 2018-08-08 08:32, David C. Rankin wrote:

On 08/07/2018 09:19 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

It use to look like this:

On 06/07/18 03:23 PM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

now it looks like this

On 2018-08-07 8:54 a.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:

The change from "AM' or "PM" to "a.m." and "p.m." is throwing spelling/grammer errors. Annoying.

Where does this come from?

This is the setting mailnews.reply_header_ondateauthorwrote and has a value of On #2 #3, #1 wrote:

And yes, I understand that. But I don't understand the change and I don't understand how the "#3" gets formatted. Can anyone advise?

My google-fu hasn't revealed anything that illuminated this specific matter.

I think you are close with mailnews.reply_header_authorwroteondate, but I think "time" is what you want to search the Config Editor with. What looks promising is:

messenger.conversations.selections.actionMessagesTemplate messenger.conversations.selections.contentMessagesTemplate messenger.conversations.selections.systemMessagesTemplate

Those look like the likely date/time formats, but I'm not sure which is the one triggered on "Reply"...

Time might come from the "locale". See the first line of this post of mine, for example. I have: LC_TIME=en_DK.UTF-8 -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

Hi, Am 08.08.18 um 17:40 schrieb Anton Aylward:

On 2018-08-08 6:59 a.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:

I've never set that in my outermost shell. In fact the outermost shell that starts Thunderbird (as well as Firefox and others) gives: anton@main:~> date Wed Aug 8 11:34:30 EDT 2018

and I'd be happy with that. So something is wrong inside T'Bird.

just for my understanding: What is the setting for you under Preferences->Advanced->date/clock format? Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 08/08/18 12:01 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

...

and I'd be happy with that. So something is wrong inside T'Bird.

just for my understanding: What is the setting for you under Preferences->Advanced->date/clock format?

Good question!

I've thought of that and tried both "Appication Locale" (which I have set to US) and "Regional locale" which I have set for Canada.

Both produce the same result.

As you can see, I've corrected the problem. What I did was roll back T'Bird from version 60 to version 52.9 Information for package MozillaThunderbird: ------------------------------------------- Repository : openSUSE-Leap-42.3-Update Name : MozillaThunderbird Version : 52.9.0-68.1 Arch : x86_64 Vendor : openSUSE I'd rate this as a bug. Which buginfo does that go into? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 08/08/2018 05:50 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

As you can see, I've corrected the problem. What I did was roll back T'Bird from version 60 to version 52.9 Information for package MozillaThunderbird: ------------------------------------------- Repository : openSUSE-Leap-42.3-Update Name : MozillaThunderbird Version : 52.9.0-68.1 Arch : x86_64 Vendor : openSUSE

I'd rate this as a bug. Which buginfo does that go into?

The bugs Felix listed look promising, but I hope you have better luck with Mozilla actually addressing a formatting issue than I have. Glad you got your old format back, now $ sudo zypper al MozillaThunderbird (and check the listing after zypper up to determine if you want the update, then temporarily remove the lock) Wolfgang has done a great job keeping the FF 52esr packages updated in mozilla repo -- hopefully we can do the same with Tbird until things settle down with these "formatting" issues. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a Gtk+2/Gtk+3 transition issue -- I doubt anyone went in and just changed a format setting (could have, but seems unlikely). I won't get on my soapbox, but when you turn programming into "what gtkbuilder can read from a list, instead of what the programmer actually designed the interface to do -- surprises happen quite frequently, only now the programmer has lost the ability to directly fix it because there is another layer of abstraction between what the programmer thinks he is doing and what the code-generation actually does... and you can't just look at the toolkit API for the specific adjustment, instead you have to find somebody that wrote the gtkbuilder interface to figure out how to tweak it -- because much of the low level documentation will only come after the dust settles... It's like trying to set the plasma systray clock font-size to 8 (or 7 or 9 or whatever you actually want it to be instead of what some undocumented desktop scaling algorithm decides it will be without asking you first :) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2018-08-09 10:55, Dave Howorth wrote:

On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 18:50:32 -0400 Anton Aylward <> wrote:

...

On 08/08/18 12:01 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

As you can see, I've corrected the problem.

You mean you think 08/08/18 is correct?

You do understand that it is a horrendously ambiguous format since some countries put the day first whilst others put the month first?

Why would you prefer that?

Indeed. Me, I read it as day/month/year, which is probably not what he reads. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On 2018-08-10 11:20, Basil Chupin wrote:

On 9/8/18 7:11 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2018-08-09 10:55, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 18:50:32 -0400 Anton Aylward <> wrote:

...

On 08/08/18 12:01 PM, Anton Aylward wrote: As you can see, I've corrected the problem. You mean you think 08/08/18 is correct?

You do understand that it is a horrendously ambiguous format since some countries put the day first whilst others put the month first?

Why would you prefer that? Indeed. Me, I read it as day/month/year, which is probably not what he reads.

Only slight hassle is, Carlos, that when *you* reply your mailer, which happens to be TB 52.9, shows the year/month/date format -- see above :-).

That's intentional, by me. It is the ISO format. ;-) It comes from this setting: cer@Telcontar:~> locale | grep TIME LC_TIME=en_DK.UTF-8 cer@Telcontar:~> -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 11:36:25 +0100 Dave Howorth wrote:

On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 19:20:49 +1000 Basil Chupin wrote:

...

On 9/8/18 7:11 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2018-08-09 10:55, Dave Howorth wrote:

...

On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 18:50:32 -0400 Anton Aylward <> wrote:

...

On 08/08/18 12:01 PM, Anton Aylward wrote: As you can see, I've corrected the problem. You mean you think 08/08/18 is correct?

You do understand that it is a horrendously ambiguous format since some countries put the day first whilst others put the month first?

Why would you prefer that? Indeed. Me, I read it as day/month/year, which is probably not what he reads.

Only slight hassle is, Carlos, that when *you* reply your mailer, which happens to be TB 52.9, shows the year/month/date format -- see above :-).

BC

Oops, sorry. I misread Basil's message. Ignore my garbage below :( But there's nothing wrong with Carlos' mailer.

Err,no. That would be your mailer!

Carlos' mailer prepended "> On 2018-08-09 10:55, Dave Howorth wrote:"

YOUR mailer prepended "On 9/8/18 7:11 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:"

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On 09/08/18 04:55 AM, Dave Howorth wrote:

On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 18:50:32 -0400 Anton Aylward wrote:

...

On 08/08/18 12:01 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

As you can see, I've corrected the problem.

You mean you think 08/08/18 is correct?

You do understand that it is a horrendously ambiguous format since some countries put the day first whilst others put the month first?

Why would you prefer that?

I don't. I was referring to > On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 18:50:32 -0400 > Anton Aylward wrote: I'm doing a step-and repeat through past releases, and I'm finding that even with no other changes, each one is formatting the date there differently. This one, which as you say is teh awful/ambiguous format,. is in the version 52.9.0 I'm stepping further back and back and back and finding plugins that are supposed to be available are now not. It's all very confusing! My signature setting have vanished! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 09/08/18 01:40, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 2018-08-08 6:59 a.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2018-08-08 08:32, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

On 08/07/2018 09:19 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

It use to look like this:

On 06/07/18 03:23 PM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

now it looks like this

On 2018-08-07 8:54 a.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:

The change from "AM' or "PM" to "a.m." and "p.m." is throwing spelling/grammer errors. Annoying.

Where does this come from?

This is the setting mailnews.reply_header_ondateauthorwrote and has a value of On #2 #3, #1 wrote:

And yes, I understand that. But I don't understand the change and I don't understand how the "#3" gets formatted. Can anyone advise?

My google-fu hasn't revealed anything that illuminated this specific matter.

I think you are close with mailnews.reply_header_authorwroteondate, but I think "time" is what you want to search the Config Editor with. What looks promising is:

messenger.conversations.selections.actionMessagesTemplate messenger.conversations.selections.contentMessagesTemplate messenger.conversations.selections.systemMessagesTemplate

Those look like the likely date/time formats, but I'm not sure which is the one triggered on "Reply"... Time might come from the "locale". See the first line of this post of mine, for example. On 2018-08-08 6:59 a.m., Carlos E. R. wrote: On 2018-08-08 08:32, David C. Rankin wrote: On 08/07/2018 09:19 AM, Anton Aylward wrote: I'd be happy to get back to my old "AM"/"PM"

...

I have:

LC_TIME=en_DK.UTF-8 I've never set that in my outermost shell. In fact the outermost shell that starts Thunderbird (as well as Firefox and others) gives: anton@main:~> date Wed Aug 8 11:34:30 EDT 2018

and I'd be happy with that. So something is wrong inside T'Bird.

No, its' not Thunderbird. I think I found the solution to your 'problem' and it all has to do with the Regional Settings in Settings>System Settings. In the FORMATS under Regonal Settings engage "Detailed settings" then in the TIME setting select "Canada (moh_CA)".  [Don't worry that at the bottom, in the DESCRIPTION part, it shows the date stamp as year/month/date.] After you have made this change, REBOOT then look in Thunderbird to see what is the date format. IF you don't see date/month/year then play around in this Settings section -- I don't know which setting you have for the "Region" for example; I have it set to 'Australia - Australian English (en_AU)' [##] but in TB get different date formats by changing the TIME option. [##] If I change this to read 'Australia (wbp_AU)' my date format changes to year/month/date. BC -- "Truth isn't truth." Rudy Guiliani, Donald Trump's lawyer, 20 August 2018 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2018-08-25 4:42 a.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:

If you change the settings in a terminal, and then from that terminal start thunderbird, it shows the changes. Easily seen in the date column of the message list display.

Changing the locale in a terminal does not propagate to the current session.

No. what I did was export LC_TIME="en_ca.utf8-8" first. That does propogate. I'm using BASH. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 25/08/18 18:42, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2018-08-25 04:36, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

On 09/08/18 01:40, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

On 2018-08-08 6:59 a.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

...

I have:

LC_TIME=en_DK.UTF-8 I've never set that in my outermost shell. In fact the outermost shell that starts Thunderbird (as well as Firefox and others) gives: anton@main:~> date Wed Aug  8 11:34:30 EDT 2018 The date command output is barely affected by the locale, so you can not check the settings using "date".

...

...

and I'd be happy with that. So something is wrong inside T'Bird. No, its' not Thunderbird.

I think I found the solution to your 'problem' and it all has to do with the Regional Settings in Settings>System Settings.

In the FORMATS under Regonal Settings engage "Detailed settings" then in the TIME setting select "Canada (moh_CA)".  [Don't worry that at the bottom, in the DESCRIPTION part, it shows the date stamp as year/month/date.]

After you have made this change, REBOOT then look in Thunderbird to see what is the date format. IF you don't see date/month/year then play around in this Settings section -- I don't know which setting you have for the "Region" for example; I have it set to 'Australia - Australian English (en_AU)' [##] but in TB get different date formats by changing the TIME option. Surely not reboot. Just exit the session and restart.

Whatever.

I also assume that you are changing the session locale properties. I have to edit the locale variables in bash directly because I use XFCE, which inherits the BASH locale from outside. And, Thunderbird reads the locale, whoever sets it, the session or bash.

...

[##] If I change this to read 'Australia (wbp_AU)' my date format changes to year/month/date.

If you change the settings in a terminal, and then from that terminal start thunderbird, it shows the changes. Easily seen in the date column of the message list display.

Changing the locale in a terminal does not propagate to the current session.

BC -- "Truth isn't truth." Rudy Guiliani, Donald Trump's lawyer, 20 August 2018 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2018-08-10 11:12, Basil Chupin wrote:

On 10/08/18 16:45, Basil Chupin wrote:

OK, first off, you, Anton, switched to TB version 60.0 on 9/8/2018 (9 Aug) and that is when the formatting of the date stamp changed.

I am now writing this post using TB v60.0 and, as you can see above, I am not having this problem.

I suspect that you did not alter the new available option in the Preferences>Advanced>General>Date and Time Formatting where you need to change the formatting to Regional settings locale: <whereverUare> from the setting for U.S.A.

(And as an aside: what the heck are Mozilla doing to TB?! Why can't devs just leave something good alone and not &^$%#@ around with it!?)

I would like to have the choice of language per email, and being able to set it with rules or something. It is a pain for multilingual people to have the header "on...wrote" on the wrong language. Whatever language I choose it will be incorrect for others. So each folder could have a language selected, affecting that header, the signature, the dictionary, the date format... In some cases the same folder may have several languages. A header could be added to posts specifying the language, that would be wonderful. So yes, there is room for improvement :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

On Fri, 10 Aug 2018 12:21:43 +0200 "jdd@dodin.org" wrote:

Le 10/08/2018 à 11:39, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

...

I would like to have the choice of language per email, and being able to set it with rules or something.

yes, specifically be able to change it according to mailing list :-(

Claws will do both of those things for you.

...

So yes, there is room for improvement :-)

:-)

jdd

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On 2018-08-11 09:38, David C. Rankin wrote:

On 08/10/2018 04:39 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

So each folder could have a language selected, affecting that header, the signature, the dictionary, the date format... In some cases the same folder may have several languages. A header could be added to posts specifying the language, that would be wonderful.

So yes, there is room for improvement :-)

IIRC, in earlier versions of TB (2X? before the rabbit-pellet version escalation) you could set the reply response information on a per-account or per-identity basis. I specifically remember changing that to remove the e-mail address that was included.

I don't know when the configuration option was removed, but I suspect it has been gone for a while.

It most be very long ago, I don't remember it. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

There's this, but it is out of date: http://excess.org/article/2009/12/thunderbird-reply-header-date-and-time/ This https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1426907 is more recent and it may be that version 60 has inherited this mess. I have anton@main:~> env | grep LC anton@main:~> Do I need to be running systemd-localed.service ? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin composed on 2018-08-10 19:12 (UTC+1000):

(And as an aside: what the heck are Mozilla doing to TB?! Why can't devs just leave something good alone and not &^$%#@ around with it!?)

Seriously? Do you like the chromification and other paradigm changes that have been occurring in Firefox? For the last five years at least, running its 6-8 week new release model, upstream Mozilla drivers seem driven to change for change sake, not content to keep what works working. Just as Mozilla Suite was divorced from the mainline mozilla.org product line, after which it was renamed SeaMonkey, Thunderbird is being (has been?) too. Both have been allowed to continue to use mozilla.org infrastructure, but this too has been decreed must come to an end. In addition, components that enable SM and TB to exist have been and continue to be eliminated from the code base, necessitating that the divorcees either fork and maintain the deletions, or morph the need for them into whatever continues to be available. The scramble to adapt by the limited SM & TB development communities leaves unfortunate consequences in its wake. -- "Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 08/10/2018 11:28 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

Seriously? Do you like the chromification and other paradigm changes that have been occurring in Firefox? For the last five years at least, running its 6-8 week new release model, upstream Mozilla drivers seem driven to change for change sake, not content to keep what works working.

Just as Mozilla Suite was divorced from the mainline mozilla.org product line, after which it was renamed SeaMonkey, Thunderbird is being (has been?) too. Both have been allowed to continue to use mozilla.org infrastructure, but this too has been decreed must come to an end. In addition, components that enable SM and TB to exist have been and continue to be eliminated from the code base, necessitating that the divorcees either fork and maintain the deletions, or morph the need for them into whatever continues to be available. The scramble to adapt by the limited SM & TB development communities leaves unfortunate consequences in its wake.

+1 -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org