On Friday 29 September 2006 19:23, Stephen Boddy wrote:

Well on my British layout keyboard, I have the following: Shift + Alt Gr + Y = ¥ (165) Alt Gr + Z = « (171) Alt Gr + X = » (187) I can't find the other one [、 (12289)], but it is possibly there somewhere. Unfortunately, there's no guarantee that they will be on the same keys for your layout.

What is Gr? Do you have a key labeled "Alt Gr" ??? Never seen such? -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On Friday 29 September 2006 21:26, Jerry Westrick wrote:

On Saturday 30 September 2006 08:20, John Andersen wrote:

...

On Friday 29 September 2006 19:23, Stephen Boddy wrote:

...

Well on my British layout keyboard, I have the following: Shift + Alt Gr + Y = ¥ (165) Alt Gr + Z = « (171) Alt Gr + X = » (187) I can't find the other one [、 (12289)], but it is possibly there somewhere. Unfortunately, there's no guarantee that they will be on the same keys for your layout.

What is Gr?

Do you have a key labeled "Alt Gr" ??? Never seen such?

"AltGr" = Alt Key on right of space bar. I thought the "Gr" was german for "Gross" meaning "big" or "Capital", but that was an assumption...

Ok so If I type Alt+Z using the right side Alt key some special character is supposed to showup? Not happening here with typical US keyboard layout. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Saturday 2006-09-30 at 10:16 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:

Alt Gr = Alternate Graphics.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_Gr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key

The key is available not only on German keyboards, but also UK, Swiss-German|French, French and Scandinavian (IIRC). Probably many others too.

Spain. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFHn/qtTMYHG2NR9URAiPpAJ0cYIjUNDmw2QFnLT3a6pCaxGwSjQCfSuzq SZBIgVA5UOL02IntoVe/cOY= =4riJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Friday 29 September 2006 22:42, Duff Mckagan wrote:

I am also looking for such stuff....I wanna type German Special Characters (Umlauts) but can't find a way to do that with the US keyboard Layout. Changing to the German Keyboard layout is an option, but not quite convenient.

In Windows, I can type that by pressing Alt+<ASCII Code of the character> ..but in Linux I don't find such an option.

Does anybody know of a similar thing in Linux?

And yeah...what is "Alt Gr" ?

There is this (cute but not all that useful) xvkvd utility which SuSE supplies (homepage http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato ) It puts a little on-screen visual keyboard where you can hit the compose key followed by other keys to type fairly useless stuff like æ or ¼ and instantly call up a German Layout keyboard where you can type those funky German ü § ß characters. But its slow. I suppose If I absolutely had to have a ¼ symbol its better than nothing. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On 9/30/06, 张韡武 wrote:

在 2006-09-30六的 12:12 +0530，Duff Mckagan写道：

...

On 9/30/06, John Andersen wrote:

...

On Friday 29 September 2006 19:23, Stephen Boddy wrote:

...

Well on my British layout keyboard, I have the following: Shift + Alt Gr + Y = ¥ (165) Alt Gr + Z = « (171) Alt Gr + X = » (187) I can't find the other one [、 (12289)], but it is possibly there somewhere. Unfortunately, there's no guarantee that they will be on the same

keys

...

for

...

your layout.

What is Gr?

Do you have a key labeled "Alt Gr" ??? Never seen such?

...

I am also looking for such stuff....I wanna type German Special Characters (Umlauts) but can't find a way to do that with the US keyboard Layout. Changing to the German Keyboard layout is an option, but not quite convenient.

Your requirement is much more easier to satisfy then mine.

If you use gnome, right click a gnome panel and select add an item, choose to add 'character panel', and you can then quickly select umlauts from the panel tool. It's more convenient (from my point of view) then Windows' way of handling that. (probably incorrect English of text prompt. I am translating from Chinese version).

Thanks...but what if I am using KDE? GNOME seems to be a fair choice...but I have a kinda inclination for KDE... My problem is different. That convenient tool seems is written for

westerners or European users in mind, we missed useful Chinese stuff there.

...

In Windows, I can type that by pressing Alt+

character>

...

..but in Linux I don't find such an option.

Does anybody know of a similar thing in Linux?

And yeah...what is "Alt Gr" ?

-- 锐业软服（国内业务） http://www.realss.cn Real SoftService http://www.realss.com 销售咨询(Sales Department): 0086 592 20 99987 (Chinese, German, English) 国际业务(International Sales): 0086 10 8460 6011 (German and English) 联系：厦门大学科技园，嘉庚二号楼6楼 邮政：厦门大学2312号信箱（邮编361005）

-- http://mckagan.googlepages.com

On Saturday 30 September 2006 04:46, Leendert Meyer wrote:

On Saturday 30 September 2006 08:42, Duff Mckagan wrote:

...

I am also looking for such stuff....I wanna type German Special Characters (Umlauts) but can't find a way to do that with the US keyboard Layout. Changing to the German Keyboard layout is an option, but not quite convenient.

ü: Hold R-Shift, press R-Ctrl, release both, type ", type u û: Hold R-Shift, press R-Ctrl, release both, type ^, type u

Config in /etc/sysconfig/keyboard, combinations in /usr/share/kbd/keymaps/include/* (but what specific file(s) depend(s) upon settings in config).

I suppose one could add more combinations, but maybe best in a separate file, and add the file in the config.

The right-Ctrl key is made as the Compose key (which composes an accent with any letter) by Xmodmap. You can see the defaults all in the file /etc/X11/Xmodmap. They are all commented out, but they serve as examples. If you copy that file to your home directory as .Xmodmap, you can modify it as you want. Though the Compose key allows you to do any accented letter, I don't think it can be used for non-latin characters. Carlos FL

On Saturday 30 September 2006 10:13, Carlos F Lange wrote:

Though the Compose key allows you to do any accented letter, I don't think it can be used for non-latin characters.

Carlos FL

Are things like Æ or © or ® considered Latin Characters? ß (ss) seems more germanic than latin to my linguistically uneducated mind. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On Sat, 2006-09-30 at 11:55 -0800, John Andersen wrote:

On Saturday 30 September 2006 10:13, Carlos F Lange wrote:

...

Though the Compose key allows you to do any accented letter, I don't think it can be used for non-latin characters.

Carlos FL

Are things like Æ or © or ® considered Latin Characters?

æ is actually latin a with a kind of umlaut (originally written as a small e above the a to indicate a drift in pronunciation, later the e merged with the a to become a separate letter in some languages) The other two are latin C and R but the complete characters I guess are pictures rather than actual characters

ß (ss) seems more germanic than latin to my linguistically uneducated mind.

ß really is a handwriting letter from the German Sütterlin "alphabet" or handwriting style. It's sz rather than ss. Today it is used for ss, but in spoken German it's still called sz

On Sat, 2006-09-30 at 18:21 -0800, John Andersen wrote:

On Saturday 30 September 2006 15:58, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

ß really is a handwriting letter from the German Sütterlin "alphabet" or handwriting style. It's sz rather than ss. Today it is used for ss, but in spoken German it's still called sz

Well the ss that I put in parens was to indicate the compose combination needed to generate it on my keyboard, not its spoken sound. I spoze it might be different if I had a German keyboard.

On a German keyboard it is a separate key On a Swedish keyboard, it is AltGr+s

On Saturday 30 September 2006 09:27, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

...

...

Well on my British layout keyboard, I have the following: Shift + Alt Gr + Y = ¥ (165) Alt Gr + Z = « (171) Alt Gr + X = » (187) I can't find the other one [、 (12289)], but it is possibly there somewhere. Unfortunately, there's no guarantee that they will be on the same keys for your layout.

What is Gr?

Do you have a key labeled "Alt Gr" ??? Never seen such?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltGr_key Americans usually don't the AltGr key.

Correction: Americans usually don't HAVE the AltGr key. We are not lazy, just deprived. ;-) -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

...

This symbol (￥) is very important to me, it means Chinese money, RMB or CNY. I use it everyday on OOCalc. How do I enter this symbol?

The old way is to keep it in tomboy (a memo application) and copy & paste it to OOCalc when I need it.

Windows (Chinese version) has a special feature to enter this symbol easily.

Other symbols I don't know how to enter in Linux are: 1. 、 2. 《》

These symbols are very frequently used Chinese punctuations. They are all available in Windows as 'software keyboard' that when enabled, each key is replaced by a Chinese punctuation. Thanks to this interesting feature, currently no Chinese keyboard actually implement these punctuations as separate key.

P.S. I tried to look for them in char-map but is not able to find them easily. The way I keep using is google-for-it-and-copy&paste.

P.S. Use UTF-8 charset if you cannot see my example punctuations correctly. If your font doesn't include these punctuations, try use GNU Unifont or check the screenshot I made and attached to this email.

Well on my British layout keyboard, I have the following: Shift + Alt Gr + Y = ¥ (165) Alt Gr + Z = « (171) Alt Gr + X = » (187)

On a regular US, with compose enabled: <Compose> + "=" + "Y" = ¥ (probably not the same as ￥) <Compose> + "<" + "<" = « (definitely not the same as 《 ) And the other is Compose>>.

I can't find the other one [、 (12289)], but it is possibly there somewhere. Unfortunately, there's no guarantee that they will be on the same keys for your layout.

I do not know offhand if SCIM behaves the same way as MS-IME for puncutation, that is, creating 。 and 、 (when in Japanese). Jan Engelhardt --

On Sunday 01 October 2006 02:13, 张韡武 wrote:

How do we enable COMPOSE? Is it a key on the keyboard?

I can try to find keyboards with COMPOSE key.

In your standard Suse, since 9.3, it is the combination right-Shift + right-Ctrl. They have to be pressed together, but try to always start with the right-Shift, otherwise you get right justification in Kmail and other text editors (which BTW can be fixed with left-Ctrl+left-Shift). After pressing this right-Shift+right-Ctrl combination, release and press the "accent key" (or say "="), then release and press the base key (say "Y") to obtain ¥. As with the Y, case matters and any shift key can be used for upper case. As I mentioned before, you can change the Compose key by copying /etc/X11/Xmodmap to ~/.Xmodmap and editing it. It contains the current defaults commented out, so you just need to change and remove the comments. Carlos FL

张韡武 wrote:

在 2006-09-30六的 19:23 +0200，Jan Engelhardt写道：

...

...

...

This symbol (￥) is very important to me, it means Chinese money, RMB or CNY. I use it everyday on OOCalc. How do I enter this symbol?

The old way is to keep it in tomboy (a memo application) and copy & paste it to OOCalc when I need it.

Windows (Chinese version) has a special feature to enter this symbol easily.

Other symbols I don't know how to enter in Linux are: 1. 、 2. 《》

These symbols are very frequently used Chinese punctuations. They are all available in Windows as 'software keyboard' that when enabled, each key is replaced by a Chinese punctuation. Thanks to this interesting feature, currently no Chinese keyboard actually implement these punctuations as separate key.

P.S. I tried to look for them in char-map but is not able to find them easily. The way I keep using is google-for-it-and-copy&paste.

P.S. Use UTF-8 charset if you cannot see my example punctuations correctly. If your font doesn't include these punctuations, try use GNU Unifont or check the screenshot I made and attached to this email.

Well on my British layout keyboard, I have the following: Shift + Alt Gr + Y = ¥ (165) Alt Gr + Z = « (171) Alt Gr + X = » (187)

On a regular US, with compose enabled:

<Compose> + "=" + "Y" = ¥ (probably not the same as ￥) <Compose> + "<" + "<" = « (definitely not the same as 《 )

How do we enable COMPOSE? Is it a key on the keyboard?

I can try to find keyboards with COMPOSE key.

...

And the other is Compose>>.

...

I can't find the other one [、 (12289)], but it is possibly there somewhere. Unfortunately, there's no guarantee that they will be on the same keys for your layout.

I do not know offhand if SCIM behaves the same way as MS-IME for puncutation, that is, creating 。 and 、 (when in Japanese).

No. SCIM gives double width version of a character but not necessarily Chinese version of a character.

E.g. 1:

When I type dollar sign in Chinese input mode, in Windows the symbol for Chinese Yuan is printed out. In Linux, ooops, a double-width USD symbol is printed out. Who need double-width USD Symbol? Plainly SCIM gives double-width version of every original symbol but not their Chinese counterparts.

E.g. 2:

When I type hyphen/dash in Chinese mode, I am expecting Chinese punctuation "──" (a.k.a. "破折号"). If I were using Winodws, a "破折号" would be printed out. But actually SCIM gives me this symbole: "－", This is not the correct symbol. What SCIM gives me is the double-width version of hyphen, which is a symbol almost not at all used in Chinese text. See the difference:

看吧，它飞舞着，象个精灵，──高傲的，黑色的暴风雨的精灵， 看吧，它飞舞着，象个精灵，－－高傲的，黑色的暴风雨的精灵，

sorry this is off topic. Anyway there are still a lot of localisation necessary for Linux for Chinese users.

...

Jan Engelhardt

I would be surprised if this is a Linux limitation. I think this may be a stumbling block in SLE. Why don't you post your question in CentOS 4 forum at http://www.centos.org/ and see if Red Hat handles this differently than Suse?

(CentOS = Community Enterprise OS, it's the OpenSource version of Red Hat Enterprise Linux; used by a lot of U.S. universities)

On Friday 29 September 2006 23:21, Jos van Kan wrote:

It lets you enter all kind of symbols, from cuneiform to old norse runes.

Dude! You gotta get out more! ;-) -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

张韡武 schreef:

在 2006-09-30六的 09:21 +0200，Jos van Kan写道：

...

I use a utility named gucharmap for that. It lets you enter all kind of symbols, from cuneiform to old norse runes.

This is the tool I use, but I cannot find the symbol easily. I think perhaps I dig into it and very carefully browse all character sections I can find out this symbol, just if they can make it a bit easier to use?

Gucharmap has a search utility. Click search and enter "yen" (without the quotes) into the search box. Regards, -- Jos van Kan registered Linux user #152704

在 2006-09-30六的 14:01 +0200，Leendert Meyer写道：

On Saturday 30 September 2006 04:44, 张韡武 wrote:

...

This symbol is very important to me, it means Chinese money, RMB or CNY. I use it everyday on OOCalc. How do I enter this symbol?

I first thought it was: ¥: Hold R-Shift, press R-Ctrl, release both, press '=', press 'Y' but that one is *clearly* different: ¥ = U+00A5

*This* is what you're looking for: ￥: U+FFE5, KDE's KCharSelect, table 255, bottom row, sixth character.

Surely U+00A5 is not U+FFE5, despite the shape difference, the later one is much wider, giving a Chinese ideograph look, thus is used much more in China. I tried your way:

¥: Hold R-Shift, press R-Ctrl, release both, press '=', press 'Y'

Also the way to input umlauts the other one suggested:

ü: Hold R-Shift, press R-Ctrl, release both, type ", type u û: Hold R-Shift, press R-Ctrl, release both, type ^, type u

Both doesn't work for me. Perhaps that's because I have Chinese input method enabled. The rest of your help text is very helpful for me, thank you very much!

On Saturday 30 September 2006 19:29, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

...

I copied the characters into a text file (kate), saved it as a utf-16 file, opened it with Midnight Commander (mc) using 'View' (F3), and I could discover the 16-bit unicode numbers.

Midnight Commander does not support UTF-16. So it's all UTF-8, including Kate.

I was viewing in HEX mode. That's not utf-16 nor utf-8. :P Cheers, Leen

On Saturday 30 September 2006 23:31, Randall R Schulz wrote:

On Saturday 30 September 2006 10:54, Leendert Meyer wrote:

...

On Saturday 30 September 2006 19:29, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

...

...

I copied the characters into a text file (kate), saved it as a utf-16 file, opened it with Midnight Commander (mc) using 'View' (F3), and I could discover the 16-bit unicode numbers.

Midnight Commander does not support UTF-16. So it's all UTF-8, including Kate.

I was viewing in HEX mode. That's not utf-16 nor utf-8. :P

That's not really a meaningful statement.

Hmm, whose statement, mine or Jan's? I suppose you meant mine, right? After all it was a bit short-worded.

UTF-8 and UTF-16 are ways of encoding Unicode codepoint values in a data stream or file. You could take a file holding UTF-16 (or -8) -encoded text and view it as binary or octal or decimal or hexadecimal octets, or as 16-bit numbers, likewise of any numeric radix of your choosing, and it would still be UTF-16 (or -8) -encoded Unicode text you were viewing.

Indeed; thanks for clearing this up. Cheers, Leen

Leendert Meyer wrote:

On Sunday 01 October 2006 13:31, Hylton Conacher(ZR1HPC) wrote:

...

Is there not an online resource hat could be used to find out what all the 'special' character key combinations are ie what keys I need to press on a standard US/UK/Chinese keyboard to achieve the character ie Press L-Alt + 0198 for the Euro sign Press R-Alt + 0197 for te pound sign etc etc.

Then no matter what keyboard we used if we performed the above we would get the character that the OP wants no matter where he/she may live.

- open /etc/sysconfig/keyboard - locate the variable 'COMPOSETABLE' its contents is a space separated list of filenames without extension - find the corresponding files in /usr/share/kbd/keymaps/include/* - open those files and find the key-combo's

Can't find a keycombo? There's always KCharSelect on KDE, and I'm sure GNOME has something similar... ;-) Thanks Leen. -- ======================================================================== Currently using unpatched SuSE 9.2 Professional with KDE and Mozilla 1.7.2 Linux user # 229959 at http://counter.li.org ========================================================================