Aaron Digulla wrote:

Am 15.07.2015 um 04:09 schrieb Basil Chupin: I suggest to use real news sources ....

I am not disagreeing with what you said, but it *would* make sense. FLASH=SVG+JAVASCRIPT in a proprietary format. HTML5 has both and suitable replacement tech.. and flash has definitely had more than it's share of problems compared to other plugins. Acrobat, I'm sure, is another format on the kill list, as soon as there is a standardized encapsulated doc format suitable for replacing it (there is, sorta -- HTML-email, but everyone has a knee-jerk reaction to it to hate it... but all the things that go into a pdf *container*, could go in email attachments, with the whole doc being a self-enclosed format -- with one "show stopper" (that probably won't take too long to cure) -- encrypted and with the ability to disable a user printing it, or changing it, or perhaps even saving it (if the encryption key expires, it might not let you open the doc). Basically, neither goog nor moz have need for flash nor the headaches it brings. Adobe has been getting a bit too insulated from their customers and the need to innovate. To help themselves to a more comfy life, they stopped selling most products and forced ALL their customers s(including home/end users) onto SW rental contracts. Their product prices were already 'outrageous' because there was no competition, but w/o competition, there was a noticeable slowdown in innovation. Many of the programs they have, are among the best in their class (though maybe the only ones in their class). But many of those programs Adobe didn't develop, but acquired through purchasing other companies -- and those are the programs that seem to have the most problems -- probably because the core developers of those products didn't come with the sale. The main reason that may keep Adobe from a hard fall. They've had bugs in some of their products for 5-10 years (looking back in their forums).. bugs that never were fixed in the retail products, but you can get fixed versions, if you go on their service plan. Nice. Of course --- that's the way the market is going, because innovation is hard. But a monthly income for doing nothing but the minimum necessary, is easy -- ask the big utilities. Even MS is starting their campaign for people to be suckered into the WIN10 rental. Get your free-Win10 Fix(upgrade)... the 1st year is free...After that... no telling what the MS-dealers will charge. The UEFI and secure boot are the kicker to close the open SW door. While MS required Secureboot to be on all non-x86 platforms for them to get a MS-Win-approved seal on the HW, that was in Win8... I don't know, when, but it's pretty obvious that they will start putting pressure on the x86(64) platform eventually... and then... where will linux be?... Even Suse has to get their security blobs from MS to boot their Secure versions -- with Intel's trusted Exec-env being ramped up, won't be long before running your own SW on your own box will be a royal pain (think trying to run Suse w/o systemd, then multiply that by 10). I do know Moz keeps pulling the plug on flash As for better sources on the above? * Mozilla blocks all versions of Adobe Flash in Firefox ...www.ghacks.net * Firefox blocks Flash, and Facebook calls for its death - Jul ... money.cnn.com/2015/07/14/.../flash-firefox-facebook/ * Adobe Updates Flash to 18.0.0.209 After Mozilla Blocks All ... news.softpedia.com Just goog for the latest news: Searched on: mozilla pulls flash on new firefox -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. composed on 2015-07-15 12:32 (UTC+0200):

Till these people (providers) feel compelled to use an alternative, it is useless.

It would have to be IE who blocks it for any practical effect...

You underestimate the combined power of Apple, Google and Mozilla. Content providers will be losing huge traffic to astute users if they don't abandon Flash very quickly. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/15/2015 07:52 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

You underestimate the combined power of Apple, Google and Mozilla. Content providers will be losing huge traffic to astute users if they don't abandon Flash very quickly. And you underestimate the power of content providers to ignore all those.

Perhaps that should read "stupidity". IE was left in the dust quite some time ago and, as I mentioned in another note, being replaced by Edge. Years ago, we used to see IE only sites. I haven't seen one of those in many years.

These people need a proprietary platform that allows them to control who and where has access to their content, and make sure that you can not store the content into a file.

My work computer runs (YUCK!!!) Windows 8.1. I have to run Chrome on it, to access some company sites. So, I just made it the default browser and removed the IE icon from the task bar. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/15/2015 11:21 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

IE is still the most prominent corporate and governmental browser though. I dunno what Edge is, do I need to?

Edge is the browser that's replacing IE on Windows 10. I just checked a W10 preview that I have on a virtual machine and couldn't find IE. As I mentioned in another note, Edge defaults to HTML5.

...

...

I haven't seen one of those in many years. Somehow the onus was turned around - it used to be the website that had to accomodate the user's weird and wonderful browser, it is now the other way around - I dunno how many times a day I get the "your browser is outdated" message.

Many older browsers don't support newer features. For example, I can still fire up OS/2. The Web Explorer in it doesn't work well now, yet it's less than 20 years old. ;-) There are also many security issues with older browsers that are no longer supported. I expect IE will fall into this category in the not too distant future. BTW, I have configured all my browsers, on both personal and work computers to default to HTML5 on Youtube, if they don't already do so. I don't know if that applies to other sites. I have Android tablet and phone and also an iPhone 6 for work. None of them support Flash, IIRC. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/15/2015 11:32 AM, jdd wrote:

android do, not apple

That must be why I see those articles about Flash not being available on Google Play and ways to install it from elsewher. . -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Here's another article: http://www.eweek.com/blogs/security-watch/mozilla-blocks-flash-in-firefox-thanks-to-unpatched-zero-days.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EWK_NL_EP_20150715_STR2L2&dni=260697001&rni=22079222 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 16/07/2015 02:42, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

https://settings.adobe.com/flashplayer/mobile. Firefox says that it needs a plugin to display that content.

the right page is here: https://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/archived-flash-player-versions.html look near the bottom of the page for android version. works on my smartphone jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 16/07/2015 11:14, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

Huh. An archived version... must be full of exploits. :-(

not sure there are on android

I prefer to use Chrome instead.

don't works either jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/16/2015 05:30 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

tablets have small cpus >:-}

Small compared to what? Small compared to the computers used by the WW2 era Manhattan Project? Bletchley park? NASA to put man on the moon? Small compared to the 800MHz SFF box with 500M of memory out of the Closet of Anxieties that used to run W/95 but now runs openSuse 12.2 that serves as a DNS/DHCP/RADIUS server. Lets see: my tablet has 3GB RAM; 64GB ROM and a 64GB memory card. It has a 1.9GHz Exynos 5 Octa, that's an 8-core CPU with a built in GPU. Yes, compared to the overclocked Intel i7 + 32G memory of some gamning laptops, its a small CPU. But its about twice the CPU of my Dell desktop. Whether the ARM is a more powerful CPU architecture than massively backward compatible Intel x86, transistor for transistor at the chop real estate level has long been debated. Yes, I admit, the middle east is over-run by scaled down (lesser cpus, only 500M or memory, poor GPU, low resolution displays) that are easting into the business of the established companies such as Apple and Samsung http://www.wsj.com/articles/samsung-apple-lose-ground-to-china-smartphone-ma... <quote src="http://www.gizchina.com/2012/04/07/top-6-ipad-clones-knock-china/"> Low Cost New iPad clone for less than $100 This new iPad clone gets a 9.7inch screen, Via8650 CPU, 256mb RAM, 2-4GB of built in storage and even a front camera all for less than $100! To get the price this low the factory have had to make some sacrfices, one being the Android 2.2 Froyo OS and the second being a rather small 2400 Mah battery! </quote> If these crippled clones are the ones you are referring to then I have a weaker argument. .... or do you mean physically smaller? Yes, and cell phones have even smaller ones :-) -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/16/2015 07:34 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

Small compared to the computers used by the WW2 era Manhattan Project?

There were no computers used by the Manhattan Project. ENIAC was created to calculate ballistic tables for artillery shells and arrived pretty much too late for atomic bomb development, though it was used for hydrogen bomb research. The best the Manhattan project had was punch card calculators, slide rules and perhaps analog "computers". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 16/07/2015 17:08, Ottavio Caruso a écrit :

On 16 July 2015 at 16:06, James Knott wrote:

...

There were no computers used by the Manhattan Project.

Terrible! How could they live without Facebook and Twitter?

they build an atomic bomb :-) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-16 17:06, James Knott wrote:

On 07/16/2015 07:34 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

Small compared to the computers used by the WW2 era Manhattan Project?

There were no computers used by the Manhattan Project. ENIAC was created to calculate ballistic tables for artillery shells and arrived pretty much too late for atomic bomb development, though it was used for hydrogen bomb research. The best the Manhattan project had was punch card calculators, slide rules and perhaps analog "computers".

There is a recent TV serial named Manhattan. At one moment, they mentioned about their computers. I was thrilled. Then they showed a room full a women, doing computing, ie, calculations by hand. :-) Another time they mentioned IBM machines, calculators I think. But I did not see them. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWn4X8ACgkQja8UbcUWM1zpCgD/ciRvZwlA08q8aoFScBamW8os kMva9eTnPV+YLkH2bgoA/3Z3eoqFBiIMuwO+R4rLA/NFI/LhtbcBfKCl5kAvpXXd =wbFv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-16 19:26, James Knott wrote:

On 07/16/2015 12:53 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

There is a recent TV serial named Manhattan. At one moment, they mentioned about their computers. I was thrilled. Then they showed a room full a women, doing computing, ie, calculations by hand. :-)

I started watching that series and remember that scene, but for some reason the network stopped showing it.

Maybe because it explains what the lenses are :-p Or because it shows intelligence as daft paranoids :-p Yesterday I finished the first season, using the play on demand application of my ISP on a tablet. No commercials!

Back then, IBM was the name in punch card data processing. They had punches, readers, sorters, calculators, printers and more, all based on those 80 column cards. Some of the more advanced calculators were approaching computers.

I heard of them. Maybe my father used them. One day he showed me the computer room of his work place (a petroleum refinery). The line printer was awesome: a line at a time, almost instantly. He brought home lots of used printer paper, which we used for writing on the other side. Plentiful supply! :-)

https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/ibms-early-computers

BTW, I used to work for IBM, doing 3rd level OS/2 support.

:-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWn610ACgkQja8UbcUWM1z0fAD7BzlVtGDwCXm/CG+buyOua39j vLmU/TliToE0Z76sH+MA/RYrXnHtq09AC3Z9K5CFI+y8jNDrUGdCOkPnt6UuF5dQ =cfvZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-16 21:23, Anton Aylward wrote:

On 07/16/2015 01:35 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

One day he showed me the computer room of his work place (a petroleum refinery). The line printer was awesome: a line at a time, almost instantly.

Yes, I remember those printers. It wasn't just that they could print a line at a time. heck, laser printers print a page at a time.

Yes, but they were not yet invented! :-)

It was the speed. Print a large file and the paper few out into the air.

Yep. And my father said that the one they had that time was slower than the previous one.

That wasn't a printer it was a mortar. You didn't want to be standing there looking in when it started. Paper can cut; at that speed it would cut seriously!

I guess that was the previous model he was talking about ;-)

"Off with his head!" (Obligatory Lewis Carroll Quote)

:-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWoOjUACgkQja8UbcUWM1zu3wD+Pnx5VQpDauCw46AT85nmwiy/ tzs3t6xZiwSMoFBtRYAA/38/4Es4MmCGy8RprNyQqMJiw93e0ZgE0Yq9dPzHtZOj =STjh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-29 14:13, Philipp Thomas wrote:

* James Knott (james.knott@rogers.com) [20150715 17:36]:

...

That must be why I see those articles about Flash not being available on Google Play and ways to install it from elsewher.

Depends on the Processor Android runs on. For Intel i.e. Atom based devices there is no flash player as Adobe ceased to support it, whereas Arm is supported.

Ah... Two days ago I saw an automatic update to an app in my phone, with the flash icon. I tapped to see what it really was, and it was not flash, but flash setup. I think it is arm based, I don't know how to check.

Time for all proprietary formats to die, but for content protection uses we will always see solutions like the integration of drm in HTML that the usual suspects are puushing for.

Yep. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlW4yWoACgkQja8UbcUWM1ymXAD9HNbE6S+DCQNMtWL3pSrBSw/1 4Bai1D69BpfCVBd06CEBAIY1kke49CACYfzsiM/5Z5BwZfmfyEQPNfO8YScKa6pJ =xpz7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. composed on 2015-07-16 02:24 (UTC+0200):

They say that you can watch the TV in any device you wish: computer, phone, tablet. Well... on computers, it requires Silverlight, which is a Microsoft thing. I understand it runs on IE. At least, that's what the help page at my ISP said.

The support refuses to answer directly questions about Linux, but they may point you at external links on how to do things instead. One of this explains how to set up Silverlight on Linux. I'll try one day.

Apparently there is a FOSS solution: https://software.opensuse.org/search?q=pipelight -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/16/2015 02:04 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

On 2015-07-16 02:58, Felix Miata wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. composed on 2015-07-16 02:24 (UTC+0200):

...

They say that you can watch the TV in any device you wish: computer, phone, tablet. Well... on computers, it requires Silverlight, which is a Microsoft thing. I understand it runs on IE. At least, that's what the help page at my ISP said.

...

The support refuses to answer directly questions about Linux, but they may point you at external links on how to do things instead. One of this explains how to set up Silverlight on Linux. I'll try one day.

Apparently there is a FOSS solution: https://software.opensuse.org/search?q=pipelight

I was pointed to these (in Spanish, I think):

http://comunidad.movistar.es/t5/Soporte-T%C3%A9cnico-MOVISTAR/Movistar-Go-TV... http://www.linuxinicio.com.ar/2013/09/pipelight-usa-silverlight-en-tu.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Silverlight

I haven't read them yet, as I'm not at the site I need to test it.

- -- Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)

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Carlos I have installed and run it on both openSUSE 12.3 onwards and LinuxMint 17 using these instructions http://pipelight.net/cms/installation.html. I have used it to run Netflix only. Netflix btw works better on Google Chrome out of the box. Michael -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/15/2015 09:29 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Thanks. I certainly want to try these. See what happens.

Please report back to the list. While the set there are interesting there isn't anything for the tools - mindmappers - that might tempt me over to the Windows side. -- If you can read this, my cloaking device is on the blink. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/15/2015 10:18 AM, James Knott wrote:

On 07/15/2015 07:32 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

It would have to be IE who blocks it for any practical effect... Ummm... IE is all but dead. With Windows 10, Edge is the default browser, but IE is still there.

I just checked W10. Edge defaults to HTML5. I also couldn't find IE. So, going forward, HTML5 is what the web site developers should be aiming for. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/15/2015 11:27 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

Aim maybe yes, but make sure they still do plain old HTML4.1. Their customers will demand it.

Are there any recent browsers that don't support HTML5? It seems to me it's been around for a while. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/15/2015 11:31 AM, jdd wrote:

...

Are there any recent browsers that don't support HTML5? It seems to me it's been around for a while.

don't forget smartphones... and tablets

IIRC, Android and Apple phones and tablets support only HTML5. No idea about Blackberry, but I suspect Windows devices still support Flash. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

James Knott composed on 2015-07-15 11:28 (UTC-0400):

Are there any recent browsers that don't support HTML5?

Apparently Konq3, if anyone could consider it recent. I just get a black blank from it where a video belongs on Youtube.

It seems to me it's been around for a while.

Quite. Though the standard only became official last year, the working draft is more than 7 years old, and browsers started incorporating its features even before then. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 15/07/2015 17:27, Per Jessen a écrit :

Aim maybe yes, but make sure they still do plain old HTML4.1. Their customers will demand it.

and html5 video needs *two* files for each vidéo (at least) - mp4 an ogg I use html5 here http://lesgazelles.fr/index.php?n=Site.VideosGazelles code example: <div class='vspace'></div><video width="500" height="280" preload="auto" controls="controls" > <source src="http://lesgazelles.fr/uploads/Site/20130926-florida-gaz-03-haventfound.mp4" type="video/mp4" /> <source src="http://lesgazelles.fr/uploads/Site/20130926-florida-gaz-03-haventfound.ogv" type="video/ogg" /> <p class="novideo">Sorry, your browser does not support HTML5 video.</p> </video> jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 15/07/2015 18:20, Daniel Bauer a écrit :

Your videos don't show in my firefox 39.0 nor in my seamonkey 2.33.1, but yes in chromium and opera.

IMHO this just show that html5 is i enfancy. You could see the code, it's very simple. may be you lack the ogg or mp4 codecs (one of the two is necessary) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 15/07/2015 19:34, Daniel Bauer a écrit :

Don't know if it's my bowser or your page :-)

my page is a pmwki plugin, not written directly by hand, but I read it ok with firefox :-( jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-15 16:18, James Knott wrote:

On 07/15/2015 07:32 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

It would have to be IE who blocks it for any practical effect...

Ummm... IE is all but dead. With Windows 10, Edge is the default browser, but IE is still there.

I know people still running Windows XP... If there are many that way, and I guess so, W10 will not catch in years. I use W7 and have no intention to change it ;-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWm/k4ACgkQja8UbcUWM1y+nwEAmxUT9sb2gucwKW8fwto2+rYA kj+g+qT8BOv9TfbpvSQA/0d+Bu8chhAuigjFFHuRQdplhok7GjHFFjmk6Q41/ysW =eVyl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Am 15.07.2015 um 12:57 schrieb Linda Walsh:

Aaron Digulla wrote:

...

Am 15.07.2015 um 04:09 schrieb Basil Chupin: I suggest to use real news sources ....

I am not disagreeing with what you said, but it *would* make sense.

FLASH=SVG+JAVASCRIPT in a proprietary format.

Somewhat. You can do a lot what Flash can do with HTML5 but not everything. Flash is a kind of pandora's box which can do almost anything which your computer / browser can do (access files on the hard disk, call DLLs, access the clipboard). Things that HTML5 doesn't allow for good reason. So there are things which you can't do with HTML5 but I agree, most sites should be able to convert their Flash into HTML5 ... somehow. The main problem is that you have many, many authoring tools for Flash which are good, stable, easy to use, understood. It's a technology that is 10 years old. HTML5 is brand new, brittle, every browser does it a little bit different, there are subtle bugs, no (good) authoring tools.

From a business perspective, HTML5 is a no-go. Maybe in 10 years, when we have all the tools that we have for Flash now.

Acrobat, I'm sure, is another format on the kill list, as soon as there is a standardized encapsulated doc format suitable for replacing it (there is, sorta -- HTML-email, but everyone has a knee-jerk reaction to it to hate it... but all the things that go into a pdf *container*, could go in email attachments, with the whole doc being a self-enclosed format -- with one "show stopper" (that probably won't take too long to cure) -- encrypted and with the ability to disable a user printing it, or changing it, or perhaps even saving it (if the encryption key expires, it might not let you open the doc).

Not really. PDF (unlike Flash) is a standardized format, well supported. There is also a ton of tools that can process PDF, you can encrypt and secure them, they support JavaScript (so you can create responsive documents but that also opens security risks). At one time, Adobe tried to make PDF into Flash 2.0, adding all kinds of features like forms, interactive graphics, you name it). But PDF/A is a worldwide standard which isn't going away for the next ... well ... 50 years. It's an archive format for long term storage.

Basically, neither goog nor moz have need for flash nor the headaches it brings.

True but the feet of the consumers are making the decision and the feet follow the trough - paranoid content providers like TV stations want Flash so they can make sure you can't steal from them and they couldn't care less how often your computer is hacked.

As for better sources on the above?

* Mozilla blocks all versions of Adobe Flash in Firefox ...www.ghacks.net

* Firefox blocks Flash, and Facebook calls for its death - Jul ... money.cnn.com/2015/07/14/.../flash-firefox-facebook/

* Adobe Updates Flash to 18.0.0.209 After Mozilla Blocks All ... news.softpedia.com

No mention of Google blocking Flash in Chrome. The effect that the DM had might be a technical glitch. Regards, -- Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark "It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination. Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits." http://blog.pdark.de/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Am 15.07.2015 um 14:31 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

...

Am 15.07.2015 um 12:57 schrieb Linda Walsh:

...

True but the feet of the consumers are making the decision and the feet follow the trough - paranoid content providers like TV stations want Flash so they can make sure you can't steal from them and they couldn't care less how often your computer is hacked.

That's it...

I wrote to Swiss Radio and TV (SRF) and complained abut their flash radio players. I got the following answer (translated by me...): <translated quote> "...Certainly you're right. HTML5 is already supported today, for example, on mobile devices. But some of the rights-holders require us to implement some protection mechanisms that can be implemented only with flash. At this stage, therefore, for SRF flash is (still) without alternative. But we keep at it and hope to give up flash soon. ...". </quote> Seems that there are many cooks who stir the soup and for sure it will take a while until the last one in that chain understands that users have concerns, too. They will change when they loose significant numbers of users - and therefor I think the recent moves of firefox etc. are quite useful... -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona http://www.daniel-bauer.com room in Barcelona: https://www.airbnb.es/rooms/2416137 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Am 17.07.2015 um 11:45 schrieb Carlos E. R.:

On 2015-07-17 11:29, Daniel Bauer wrote:

...

But some of the rights-holders require us to implement some protection mechanisms that can be implemented only with flash. At this stage, therefore, for SRF flash is (still) without alternative.

...

But we keep at it and hope to give up flash soon. ...". </quote>

That's it. Rights management.

Users concern are irrelevant, they need to control who has access to the content. They are even tightening the laws in this regards in many countries.

If Flash disappears, they will design some other proprietary platform to do it.

Already done for HTML5. Just very hard to implement for an open source browser like Firefox. The plan is to have a binary blob from Adobe (similar to the OpenH264 thing from Cisco) to handle EME. https://wiki.mozilla.org/Media/EME https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/05/reconciling-mozillas-mission-and-w3c-eme/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2015/05/12/update-on-digital-rights-management... Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 15/07/2015 14:17, Aaron Digulla a écrit :

Somewhat. You can do a lot what Flash can do with HTML5 but not everything.

notie there are often misunderstanding about flash. there is a "flash" "flv" video container, almost used everyhere two years ago, and still present everywhere in all sites taht use old vidéos. But you have also flash web sites that are completely built around the flash web system. These are what I see really as evil, completely out of any html rule. These I ty as much as I can to avoid, but I still can't avoid flv vidéos, I have tons of them on my own web site and converting them with the same quality and versatility is not that simple, html5 is not that standard right now jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Am 15.07.2015 um 17:23 schrieb Per Jessen:

Somewhat. You can do a lot what Flash can do with HTML5 but not everything. Flash games.

Actually games work. The main problem with HTML5 games is cheating. But most "have fun for five minutes" kind of puzzle games could be written in HTML without a problem. Here is an example for a shoot'em up: http://flashvhtml.com/

...

Flash is a kind of pandora's box which can do almost anything which your computer / browser can do (access files on the hard disk, call DLLs, access the clipboard). Things that HTML5 doesn't allow for good reason. So there are things which you can't do with HTML5 but I agree, most sites should be able to convert their Flash into HTML5 ... somehow. Isn't it really only flash video/audio that can be converted? (only my impression, I might be way off).

No. HTML5 supports vector graphics (either via SVG or a polyfill using canvas), a free render element (canvas), 3D (WebGL), audio and video codecs, ... Regards, -- Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark "It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination. Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits." http://blog.pdark.de/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Am Freitag, 17. Juli 2015 18:35 CEST, Per Jessen schrieb:

...

...

Isn't it really only flash video/audio that can be converted? (only my impression, I might be way off).

No. HTML5 supports vector graphics (either via SVG or a polyfill using canvas), a free render element (canvas), 3D (WebGL), audio and video codecs, ...

I was kinda suggesting "converted" to mean "automatically converted" :-)

I understand. You're quite right, this kind of automatic conversion is only useful for a few sites. Which is another reason not to switch: They have X time experience with fixing problems with flash, HTML5 is a whole new beast, no good authoring support, no internal knowledge. You don't want to bet an expensive website on that. Regards, -- Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark "It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination. Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits." http://blog.pdark.de/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/19/2015 01:51 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

I strongly take issue with the site regarding its foisting on people its blinked view of what is meant by the English language when a person selects this language from the original German: the English language is NOT the American language - as indicated by the American flag - but the BRITISH English language. American English is a mangled version of the English language.

England and the USofA are a single people separated by a common language. At least as someone once stated. Our version of "English" is not mangled, it's highly modified by the inclusion of other languages because of the "melting pot" nature of our country. Most of the rest of the world have added their language to ours. AND, why does my choice of "English-US" give me "English-UK" spellings? -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/19/2015 10:19 AM, michael norman wrote:

No they are not, there exists no more in England or the US or anywhere else a "single people".

Certainly not in England, since the Romans invaded. Possibly not before then. Was there anyone there before the Celts. Of course, even within "humans", there's a bit of Neanderthal, Denisovian, etc.. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Well, if "innocent" black children didn't commit crimes.............................

You tell me what their crimes were, what due process was applied after the events and how many Police Officers have ever been held to account. What were these black children guilty of, exactly. I'll settle for a public record. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Let me posit you a situation. A 200+ pound black teenager with a record of bullying and assault, recently video taped stealing cigars from a convenience store and pushing the old man that owns the store around, then attempts to assault you, a 150 pound police officer, or has assaulted you already and walked away to turn and attempt more assault, what do you do?

Do you defend yourself or just let him assault you?

Me, I shoot his dumb ass. Break him of his bad habits.

The police officer in the scenario above was cleared of all charges in the shooting.

The black people of his community rioted and destroyed black owned business's in their own neighborhood.

What kind of mentality is that?

All of which is a matter of public, verifiable record where, precisely ? In what sort of society does an officer of the law "Me, I shoot his dumb ass. Break him of his bad habits" do that ? He was cleared by who exactly, and by what process ? Presumably all the evidence of "previous" you allege was presented in open court and accepted by a jury or a judge. If so it must be on record. Where, please ?

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/19/2015 11:55 AM, michael norman wrote:

...

Let me posit you a situation. A 200+ pound black teenager with a record of bullying and assault, recently video taped stealing cigars from a convenience store and pushing the old man that owns the store around, then attempts to assault you, a 150 pound police officer, or has assaulted you already and walked away to turn and attempt more assault, what do you do?

Do you defend yourself or just let him assault you?

Me, I shoot his dumb ass. Break him of his bad habits.

The police officer in the scenario above was cleared of all charges in the shooting.

The black people of his community rioted and destroyed black owned business's in their own neighborhood.

What kind of mentality is that?

All of which is a matter of public, verifiable record where, precisely ?

In what sort of society does an officer of the law "Me, I shoot his dumb ass. Break him of his bad habits" do that ? He was cleared by who exactly, and by what process ? Presumably all the evidence of "previous" you allege was presented in open court and accepted by a jury or a judge. If so it must be on record. Where, please ?

...

It was all over the news for a week. Google for Ferguson, Missouri. -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-19 18:57, Daniel Bauer wrote:

...

What kind of mentality is that?

Yeah, we should kill everybody who annoys us, especially if they're fat and armed. Immediately. Lets begin with the americans, the fat white US-americans I mean, of course.

What a beautiful world.

Please, all, take this to the off-topic list. Not here, please. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWr24kACgkQja8UbcUWM1wacQD9HeAi2Ap6CLXVt01goOVz2CMI jopE6QCc83Nf94uyqzEBAIcO8UzpB2ewtt9cZJI0Cwus6jqY1Y7BSVuHwzDWuSM1 =0eQy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 7/20/2015 2:20 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote:

If enough readers of a mail vote it as off-topic, all further posts with the same topic or using a follow-up message ID will be redirected to an off-topic list, all mail headers rewritten that you can't reply to the original list and any attempt to reply to the original list despite will disable your account for 24h

Why is everyone so down on this solution and in favor of more use of social pressure? This seems a perfectly good technical solution, and would even serve to terminate (or merely move) those discussions that have long since digressed from their original topic, and are now like wild horses, never to revisit the original issue. It substitutes a simple nudge from many people for troll feeding piling on, and can bring useless threads to a somewhat dignified end, without having to get all up in the face of 100 casual poster that just won't let things die. I like it. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 7/20/2015 4:06 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-07-18 18:54, John Andersen wrote:

...

Why is everyone so down on this solution and in favor of more use of social pressure?

I'm afraid that the list software used here doesn't have that option.

Yes, it was specifically proposed as an enhancement. Surely we can't be adverse to enhancements?!?? - -- _____________________________________ - ---This space for rent--- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlWql/0ACgkQv7M3G5+2DLJjuACfZ7ikMlx3GUa0jI/L04YKycm7 R3EAoJLqeS1zipqMPl9x1LXMap0vGQh5 =Yl8n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/20/2015 10:20 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote:

...

Please, all, take this to the off-topic list. Not here, please.

I smell a new majordomo feature: Off topic poll

If enough readers of a mail vote it as off-topic, all further posts with the same topic or using a follow-up message ID will be redirected to an off-topic list, all mail headers rewritten that you can't reply to the original list and any attempt to reply to the original list despite will disable your account for 24h ;-)

Ah, the things we could do ...

Regards,

Ha ha. Or we could all, including me, simply exercise self discipline in these matters. M -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Here is why that doesn't work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc

Regards,

Quite so. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-20 11:33, michael norman wrote:

On 07/20/2015 10:20 AM, Aaron Digulla wrote:

...

...

Please, all, take this to the off-topic list. Not here, please.

...

...

Ah, the things we could do ...

Regards,

Ha ha. Or we could all, including me, simply exercise self discipline in these matters.

Many of us stray into the off-topic in this list now and then. But a highly controversial political issue like that one was very dangerous to have it here. It could explode to terrible flame war fast. So better tell everybody a dozen times if need be to go to the off topic list :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWszvoACgkQja8UbcUWM1yXpwD/Spw25KF7dGgrnvWOoSaW31tX 34p972PvTGcT5BeFnUYA/ipiM+hxHQtMMU+PabIhzmQZBVgJlyqSsbDE7RjtOQZG =b30d -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/20/2015 07:12 AM, michael norman wrote:

...

Indeed, hence my hopeful plea for self discipline.

Perhaps : read message, go away and calm down. Come back, think many times before typing anything. Repeat until all that sinks in.

According to the lore around such matters ... Napoleon advised one of his generals who was furious about anther's behaviour to sit down and write a scathing missive ... then tear it up. Considering the number of emails I've composed and followed this advice to get the anger and/or annoyance out of my system I can recommend it. Just be careful what icon you click on! .... and then there's Yoga and meditation ... .... but some people prefer strenuous exercise ... -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

I accidentally posted a message here instead of the offtopic list. Something which I apologized for almost immediately. Then the problem compounded. Some people read the original message without seeing my apology and got their panties in a wad. They then perpetuated the problem by blasting the list with their indignation. Once the original postings died down those that read messages days out of date further perpetuated the issue some more. When someone accidentally posts something to the list, which has happened in the past and will happen in the future, instead of getting your nickers in a knot and creating an even bigger problem the best thing to do is <Delete>. That's what that key is for on your keyboard. -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/20/2015 08:47 AM, Christopher Myers wrote:

We can learn from each other. And it can be fun. But we have to put ourselves aside, let our tempers cool, and open our minds. Will we ever all agree on everything? Of course not. That would be really freaking scary actually. But if we could re-learn the art of discourse, the world would be a whole lot better place :)

Indeed. https://zeltser.com/human-communications-cheat-sheet/ -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Interesting subject line.... In all of human existence it seems the answer is "not really". Someone(s) charted all the known wars and conflicts during recorded history, then applied some really cool patterning algorithms and came up with a "war cycles" chart for predicting times of greater (or lesser) chances for conflict. Right now we are smack in the middle of a major upswing that doesn't peak until after 2020 So, can we get along? Individually? Yes. Nationally, culturally, politically, philosophically, it seems not so much. Stay safe, hunker down, ride it out. The world only lost about 50 million in WW2 so there's an odds-on chance you'll make it through to better times ahead. Oh, yeah... reply via OT list -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Am Montag, 20. Juli 2015 14:47 CEST, Christopher Myers schrieb:

...

...

...

Billie Walsh 07/20/15 7:34 AM >>> I accidentally posted a message here instead of the offtopic list. Something which I apologized for almost immediately. Then the problem compounded.

I think that the big thing that we all need to do is picture ourselves sitting across the table from each other.

... all the time which is where it gets tricky. Statistics aren't on your side. If you have a large group, chances raise that someone will be offended by a certain post. If you have many posts, that raises chances further. It's not really linear since the involved agents don't feel the same way all the time. The video link which I posted explains the effect in more detail. Which is why forum software for large groups has a voting feature. If people downvoted a thread many times, you know (without reading a single message) that it's a trollfest already. This works better because people don't get worked up to begin with: Too few people actually read a post to start a flamewar. Hence my suggestion :-) Regards, -- Aaron "Optimizer" Digulla a.k.a. Philmann Dark "It's not the universe that's limited, it's our imagination. Follow me and I'll show you something beyond the limits." http://blog.pdark.de/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/19/2015 11:57 AM, Daniel Bauer wrote:

Am 19.07.2015 um 18:25 schrieb Billie Walsh:

...

On 07/19/2015 10:42 AM, michael norman wrote:

...

...

Well, if "innocent" black children didn't commit crimes.............................

You tell me what their crimes were, what due process was applied after the events and how many Police Officers have ever been held to account.

What were these black children guilty of, exactly. I'll settle for a public record.

Let me posit you a situation. A 200+ pound black teenager with a record of bullying and assault, recently video taped stealing cigars from a convenience store and pushing the old man that owns the store around, then attempts to assault you, a 150 pound police officer, or has assaulted you already and walked away to turn and attempt more assault, what do you do?

Do you defend yourself or just let him assault you?

Me, I shoot his dumb ass. Break him of his bad habits.

The police officer in the scenario above was cleared of all charges in the shooting.

The black people of his community rioted and destroyed black owned business's in their own neighborhood.

What kind of mentality is that?

Yeah, we should kill everybody who annoys us, especially if they're fat and armed. Immediately. Lets begin with the americans, the fat white US-americans I mean, of course.

What a beautiful world.

Not a "fat" 200 pounder. A football player 200 pounder that worked out with weights. -- A cat is a puzzle with no solution. Cats are tiny little women in fur coats. When you get all full of yourself try giving orders to a cat. _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* James Knott [07-19-15 11:18]:

On 07/19/2015 10:19 AM, michael norman wrote:

Please take to opensuse-offtopic X-Mailinglist: opensuse-offtopic List-Post: mailto:opensuse-offtopic@opensuse.org List-Help: mailto:opensuse-offtopic+help@opensuse.org List-Subscribe: mailto:opensuse-offtopic+subscribe@opensuse.org List-Unsubscribe: mailto:opensuse-offtopic+unsubscribe@opensuse.org List-Owner: mailto:opensuse-offtopic+owner@opensuse.org -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 4:57 AM, Linda Walsh wrote:

FLASH=SVG+JAVASCRIPT in a proprietary format. HTML5 has both and suitable replacement tech.. and flash has definitely had more than it's share of problems compared to other plugins.

I can hardly wait to see Flash gone. I think the message being sent by Google, Mozilla, and Facebook (and rather caustically by Steve Jobs in 2010) this week is not really for Adobe's consumption to actually "set a date". But rather it's putting content creators on notice that their web sites are going to break on a regular basis if they depend on Flash because Adobe simply isn't keeping the lid on Flash's security. I don't see Adobe actively killing Flash or setting a date. They still make money from it. And until that stops, they will continue to keep it available. I could see Mozilla and Google treating Flash similar to SHA 1, 1024 bit certs, and SSLv3 and setting a series of scale back dates: warnings, then disabled by default, then more dire warnings, then preventing it as running on the basis that it's a malware enabling platform.

Acrobat, I'm sure, is another format on the kill list, as soon as there is a standardized encapsulated doc format suitable for replacing it

PDF? The PDF 1.7 spec is ISO 32000-1:2008. There are actually a bunch of other variants of it, including ISO 19005-3:2012, a.k.a. PDF/A-3 which is the archival (long term preservation) format. -- Chris Murphy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2015-07-16 at 15:19 +0300, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:

Also note that the last release of VMware vSphere client is Flash https://www.google.com/search?q=vmware+webclient+flash This is an errouneous choice, but they made it and then at least in the world of Vmware users: Flash still have to be alive...

Sigh... yeah, I am a VMWare cluster administrator. That train wreck uses Flash, Java, .NET, and just about every other technology it can. And underneath is Python and Perl on LINUX. So sad. I do what most VMware administrators do - I create a Windows install to do management work from and I RDP to that ... to use the "web client". You have to have a windows instance to run their crappy VMWare Infrastructure Server on anyway... although it pretty much does nothing that ZenOSS couldn't do. So sad. -- Adam Tauno Williams mailto:awilliam@whitemice.org GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 16 July 2015 at 13:46, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

We use high-precision laser sensors that provide a Flash interface for performing some needed tasks. Especially initial configuration. After that we control everything via various TcP ports. But Flash is needed to perform initial device setup.

+1 Sigh...

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

...

On Thu, 2015-07-16 at 15:19 +0300, Mihamina Rakotomandimby wrote:

...

Also note that the last release of VMware vSphere client is Flash https://www.google.com/search?q=vmware+webclient+flash This is an errouneous choice, but they made it and then at least in the world of Vmware users: Flash still have to be alive...

Sigh... yeah, I am a VMWare cluster administrator. That train wreck uses Flash, Java, .NET, and just about every other technology it can. And underneath is Python and Perl on LINUX. So sad.

I do what most VMware administrators do - I create a Windows install to do management work from and I RDP to that ... to use the "web client". You have to have a windows instance to run their crappy VMWare Infrastructure Server on anyway... although it pretty much does nothing that ZenOSS couldn't do. So sad.

-- Adam Tauno Williams mailto:awilliam@whitemice.org GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA

But can one build FF from sources with Flash support, in case Mozilla kills it completely? -- Ottavio -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-16 15:06, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

In case I'd depend on something I only can control via Flash I would go for an isolated VM with Windows or alike, install everything, never touch it again and not connecting to the internet ever again (or only with a different flash-less browser).

Ha. Not a chance. :-( The TomTom car navigator, for instance, uses Flash to do the map update. It also requires some Windows service. Of course, you need Internet and a login to the account to download the updates, and this all run with Flash... Every time I want to update the thing, I have to boot Windows, update Windows, FF, Flash, antivirus, etc, then the TomTom. I hate the procedure, takes hours. Ah, of course the tomtom runs Linux inside... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWnrnoACgkQja8UbcUWM1yTfQD7Be+NEQ/UexLpt6qkBZaJuH3L 9Gm0WbnPDt2vrrRlnVYA/3hbOZpEq8CZkJ/044RSZblxpyoOU/Q+TEx43pWPxU4J =9ASN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 16/07/2015 15:33, Werner Flamme a écrit :

That is one thing why I dumped TomTom.

same is true for garmin... jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 16/07/15 17:50, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2015-07-16 15:33, Werner Flamme wrote:

...

...

Carlos E. R. [16.07.2015 15:15]:

...

...

That is one thing why I dumped TomTom. Well, I'm not ready to dump an expensive gadget till it breaks out on its own. And by that time, I'd like to know already what alternative gadget to buy, so I'm open to suggestions.

I dumped both TomTom and Garmin, because I found that Google Maps on my Android smartphone was so much better: 1. It's free (once you've bought the phone) 2. It updates itself regularly 3. It knows about traffic congestion in real time, and suggests alternative routes if necessary. Downsides: 1. It uses up your data allowance, so no good for commercial travellers who are on the road all the time. 2. Ituses power, so it's worth connecting the phone to an in-car charger while in use. Bob - -- Bob Williams System: Linux 3.16.7-7-desktop Distro: openSUSE 13.2 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.14.3 Uptime: 06:00am up 7:55, 3 users, load average: 0.16, 0.05, 0.06 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlWoDl0ACgkQ0Sr7eZJrmU4QNACdG5hlTTSbLIwH19hP2XhYAm3a A70An14FnvpOOrQdDZwu9kJLajPzj/qx =EFQg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2015-07-16 at 16:11 -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

1. It uses up your data allowance, so no good for commercial travellers who are on the road all the time. 2. Ituses power, so it's worth connecting the phone to an in-car charger while in use. I like waze, which google bought about a year ago. Has more features

* Bob Williams [07-16-15 16:05]: than google-maps, and appeals more to me personally. Similar downsides.

I use OpenStreetMap on an Android device; I have been very happy. And it downloads maps for a region and stores them locally - much better in rural areas where coverage is bad. -- Adam Tauno Williams mailto:awilliam@whitemice.org GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 16/07/2015 22:11, Patrick Shanahan a écrit :

I like waze, which google bought about a year ago. Has more features than google-maps, and appeals more to me personally. Similar downsides.

I like waze, but it do not save the maps. In February, I went to Cran Canyon West (skywalk). No problem to go. But when I returned waze refused to work, because there where no network. Apparently he had removed the maps. an orther reason is that car GPS are very cheap (i could buy one refurbished for $50 at Fry) and nobody try to steal it nowadays, so you can let it stay in the car. with the smart phone one have to take it with him and as it's not possible to use it without Dc, it's very fast boring jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 4:04 PM, Bob Williams wrote:

I dumped both TomTom and Garmin, because I found that Google Maps on my Android smartphone was so much better:

1. It's free (once you've bought the phone) 2. It updates itself regularly 3. It knows about traffic congestion in real time, and suggests alternative routes if necessary.

Downsides:

1. It uses up your data allowance, so no good for commercial travellers who are on the road all the time. 2. Ituses power, so it's worth connecting the phone to an in-car charger while in use.

It's not just the data allowance its the need for cellular data in the car at all. I dropped cellular data service a couple years back. I can get wifi just about everywhere I go so why should I pay for cellular data service at all? Ignoring navigation I only miss the cellular data service once or twice a month (if that). The main reason I'm tempted to renew my data service is to get Google Maps (or similar) to work while driving. I think the minimal data service I can buy is $40/month, so that's almost $500 a year. You can buy a nice navigator for that price and get lifetime updates. fyi: the one place I truly miss Internet Access is in a federal courthouse. I work out of one occasionally. Trouble is they don't allow me to take my laptop, tablet, or cell phone in anyway so I simply have nothing to connect to the Internet with regardless. Greg -- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org